MC019 eBay Listing Removed: Copyright Violation - Unauthorized Item CHALLENGED!

[ebaykilla]

It is a joke of how flawed the eBay Copyright Violation "Unauthorized Item" system works. I had an item get "Vero'd" when it was not ⊗⊗⊗⊗ at all. The description was very generic (merely a CD tracklisting) and the pictures were of the genuine article. The artist was not a big name and the item was nothing special to gain attention. So in short I was mad that eBay targeted me so I decided to challenge the removal. Here is the email transcript:

Me:

Why did eBay remove my listing? item#xxx is an official item...why was it removed? i tooka photo and simply listed the condition and track listing. can I re-listit please? this is a pure mistake on ebay's part. if it was reported by
someone can you please provide me with their contact info?

eGay:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your listing removed from the
eBay site.

I understand your concern about the listing that we removed.
Unfortunately, I can't tell you exactly why it was removed for security
reasons. But I took another look at it, and I see that we removed it
because it had certain things in common with listings that aren't
allowed on eBay. Because of this, we won't be able to restore the
listing.

Please understand that it's against eBay policy to sell counterfeit or
unauthorized items. It's also illegal. We remove listings that violate
our policies.


-- Related Link --

Replica, Counterfeit Items, and Unauthorized Copies policy:
Replica, Counterfeit Items and Unauthorized Copies

With regards to how your items may have been reported to us, please
understand that we accept reports form our other members and also employ
our own searches on the site to locate listings that may be in violation
of our guidelines. We then take action based on all of the information
available in the listing. Unfortunately, I am not permitted to disclose
whether or not another member reported your listings.

We thank you in advance for your cooperation, and wish you luck with
your future eBay transactions.

Sincerely,
Claude

eBay Customer Support


Me:

Ok but the item is legitimate and not counterfeit or unauthorized. What else must I do to prove this?



eGay:

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to item xxxxxx that was removed.

Please understand that eBay isn't in a position to judge the
authenticity of items that sellers list on the site. Your listing was
removed because it contained some questionable content.

-- Important --
Because repeated violations of eBay policy may lead to listing
cancellation, limits on account privileges, and suspension, I recommend
that you review the eBay Replica, Counterfeit Items and Unauthorized
Copies policy here:
Replica, Counterfeit Items and Unauthorized Copies

If you need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reply to this
email and let us know.

Sincerely,
Jeff D.

eBay Customer Support


Me:

I took the ebay tutorial and it said that you will help me reach the
Vero member that issues the complaint. I would like that information
please. This item is not a ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and I want to clear the air. I do not
feel that I put anything questionable in the listing. I merely stated
the condition, the list of songs, and took a photo of the cover which
is easily googled to compare.

eGay:


Dear ,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your recently removed listing.

I reviewed the removal of item number xxxxx. This specific
listing was not reported by a VeRO member, but was rather removed by our
regular member reports or agent search.

Please understand that your listings were ended out of concern for the
safety and integrity of the eBay Community. In accordance with the eBay
User Agreement, we may immediately issue a warning, temporarily suspend,
indefinitely suspend or terminate your membership and refuse to provide
our services to you if we believe that your actions may cause financial
loss or legal liability for you, other members, or eBay.


Thank you for your time.


Sincerely,
Zach
eBay Customer Support


eGay is such a JOKE!

[aspkin]

It's probably best not to include keywords in your auctions that eBay can easily search and claim your item as copyrighted.

Watch your title and auction descriptions..

Not much else you can do..

[TGMT²]

Thats Funny...

3 Canned responses to each of your 3 emails.

I'm guessing they don't care about your concerns. LOL

[foster]

I had some Vero problems with cd's in the past. Ever since eBay seller Roastbeastmusic's trial I haven't received a single Vero complaint.

Link to the court case here --> UMG v. Augusto | Electronic Frontier Foundation

When I would receive a Vero removal all I did was fill out the counter-notice form and fax it to eBay. In every case the Vero complaint was removed and I was free to list my item again.

Link to the counter-notice form --> http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/...tice2003.shtml

eBay makes it very difficult to find out about the counter-notice form. If you search for it on their site all you'll find is this paragraph...


#

Filing a Copyright Counter Notice. For listings that have been removed at the request of the rights owner for copyright infringement, you may have the option of filing a Counter Notice with eBay if you feel that your listings were removed in error and you have not been able to come to an agreement with the rights owner.

A Counter Notice is a form provided by eBay in compliance with the requirements of the federal Digital Millennium Copyright Act. The form is a legal document that requires you to, among other things, certify under sworn penalty of perjury that your listings were not infringing and were removed by mistake or misidentification. When you sign a Counter Notice, you will also have to consent to federal jurisdiction and service of process. Please read this form carefully, so you fully understand what you agree to if you choose to submit it to eBay.

Once a valid Counter Notice is submitted, eBay will provide a copy of the notice to the reporting party and will advise them that the listings will be reinstated after 10 business days if we do not hear from the reporting party that they have filed an action seeking a court order to restrain you from re-listing the items.

If you are interested in filing a counter notification, please click on the “email us” link below and provide us with additional information regarding your appeal.

#


No link to the form at all, how nice of them.

Like I said I faxed in that form every time and only once would they not remove the strike and allow me to re-list. That time the complaint came from the Web Sheriff and eBay claimed the DMCA didn't apply since the complaining party was from outside the U.S. The Web Sheriff is based in England.

The wording of the counter-notice is legally intimidating, but selling cd's is not illegal. The Roastbeastmusic case has upheld that.

[ebaykilla]

There were no key words in the auction..however I think I will put the title in the "sub-line". Thank Foster for that link. I will be sure to try it out!

[foster]

Originally Posted by ebaykilla

There were no key words in the auction..however I think I will put the title in the "sub-line". Thank Foster for that link. I will be sure to try it out!

You're welcome. Let us know how it turns out.

It might take a week or two to get a response from eBay. Sometimes I even had to fax the form in multiple times. I always imagined the fax machine was down in a basement somewhere and no one ever checked it. Eventually eBay will e-mail you to say they received the counter-notice and have sent it to the Vero member who complained. They have two weeks, if I remember correctly, to push the case further. After the two weeks if the Vero member hasn't notified eBay that they're going to pursue it any further the strike will drop off and you'll be free to re-list. eBay will e-mail you all of this.

Oh, and eBay didn't target you. They only care when someone complains (either a Vero member or "concerned eBay community member").

[ebaykilla]

I personally think the ebay "bots" did a web crawl and flagged the auction because it resembled an old post of mine on suspended accounts. Other sellers have been targeting me for years but I am starting to fight back....

[foster]

Originally Posted by ebaykilla

I personally think the ebay "bots" did a web crawl and flagged the auction because it resembled an old post of mine on suspended accounts. Other sellers have been targeting me for years but I am starting to fight back....

My removed auctions always had the specific Vero member named. Did yours say who was complaining?

[GreenBean]

Don't forgot the 'stock photo' can be a problem. Watch how you actually do the
listing.


Also, have noticed over the past weeks, the ebay bots are rather active.

[ebaykilla]

As you can see from their communication to me above they said that it was not a Vero member but instead a concerned member and/or a "bot".

[GreenBean]

They are known to lie.

[turnaround]

Originally Posted by ebaykilla

I personally think the ebay "bots" did a web crawl and flagged the auction because it resembled an old post of mine on suspended accounts. Other sellers have been targeting me for years but I am starting to fight back....

you answered you own inquiry!!!

[mwargin]

I had an item removed before and asked them for the VERO members contact info. and they told me the same crap about it not being from a VERO member. I wonder either way if you fax them that form if they will reinstate your account.

[JohnnyBeGoode]

Originally Posted by foster

Like I said I faxed in that form every time and only once would they not remove the strike and allow me to re-list.

Foster, how do you know if they remove the strike when they reinstate the listing? I have read stories about people who successfully get their listing reinstated with a counter-notice, the VeRO member gets it taken down again, file another counter-notice, rinse and repeat. After the third takedown they were suspended, or so they said.

If so, that would mean the strike stayed on their record, even in the form of a "this guy is worth watching" flag if not an official strike. If the VeRO member keeps bombing him, the eBay computer adds up the numbers and spits out a suspension. That's my deduction, not actual knowledge.

It could be exaggeration, as people sometimes do when p*ssed off. So please say how eBay indicated the strike was removed after the counter-notice?

[foster]

I know because after I started faxing in the counter notices I've never been suspended again. I've still had to take the occasional Vero quiz, but I haven't been suspended.

It is true the counter notices do not stop a Vero member from continuing to report you and have your auctions taken down. It's never happened to me, but a friend told me he successfully had eBay block certain Vero members from going after the same auctions. He said he contacted eBay and reminded them of the several counter notices he'd filed and won. eBay reluctantly agreed to contact the Vero member and stopped taking down his auctions.

It's a pain, but we can prevail.

[ovidiu]

Ever since I started filing counter-notices contesting Microsoft's takedowns of my listings, they have let me alone. I recently sold something labeled NFR (Not for Resale), a definite takedown target, and they left it alone. But again, maybe VERO members are being a little softer because of the new listing restrictions.

[SaiJin]

So just wondering, same thing happened to me. Is there anything I can do different In my listings? Or just list away and once they take me down completely, make a new account and start all over?

[ebaykilla]

change up your titles and descriptions...key words activate the "kill bot"

[SaiJin]

what about the other 100 listings that are active? It'll take all day to revise all of them -_-

[ebaykilla]

once the listings are out there its too late to change ... the bots will get to them eventually

[SaiJin]

It's strange though, because I haven't had this issue with acc#1 at all and it's been running for 1 year now. while my 2nd account that's 2 months old got dinged once yesterday

[Lyda]

I have a bunch of old Cds sitting around the house n am thinking about listing them at .99c each, if anything just to build feedback. Any advise from you guys that have been selling these for some time now? I certainly don't want to get in trouble for selling some used CDs or have Vero take my auctions down as I have no prior experience in selling these... Any input greatly appreciated....Thanks!