Trademark Infringement / /Copyright / VERO Issues - Cease & Desist letters. - Page 2

**aspkin** · #41 (**permalink**) 06-17-2007, 03:24 PM

Makes sense. I would of just of ignored them for this reason. They have nothing on you, and if you reply, you only give them fuel to feed the fire. If you tell them, you're no one, then maybe they'll let it go, but sometimes they'll want to dig deeper. What did you do? And what was the outcome?

ebayphobia · #42 (**permalink**) 06-17-2007, 05:11 PM

Please look at this copy and paste : ..you tell me what is going on ...

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to your account suspension.

I've reviewed your account and unfortunately have no documentation that
a representative called you from the VERO department.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
Kit

eBay Customer Support

Original Message Follows:
-------------------------

Hi,
Ebay called me today and I was not home, my wife picked up the phone
and the caller said she was from Ebay and hung up. I would like to know
what this call is about??? Did anyone from Ebay make this call or this
is just a commercial call ...
Please follow up with me regarding this issue

ebayphobia · #43 (**permalink**) 06-17-2007, 05:13 PM

I contacted Ebay's Safety and Harbor sh.. and that is the email they replied to me ...

bigpapa · #44 (**permalink**) 06-17-2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bollock2ebay

Also, I think they want to scare me into telling them who the importers are. They want their names, who I supplied, my sales and revenue to assess their loss and send the remaining items to them for destruction. So there is a sound strategy to their actions. You know I wouldnt rat on anyone cos unlike them I have principles. They may be different from the norm but I believe in them. I know an importer who I dont deal with who sells them but y should I finger him to stop the heat? He hasnt done me no harm.

Hello Bollock,
What kind of items are you selling???
I had a friend a while back who was selling bootleg movie dvd's.
He was contacted by a rep from Sony(picture dept),who filed the Vero with ebay,and had a legal case pending against him.
My friend ignored the emails,and was then contacted at his home(he info was in his real name).
He never answered the calls,and then was sent a certified letter through the USPS from the legal dept at Sony,and later a summons to appear in court.
To make a very long story short,he is now in the process of being sued for copyright infringement.
As stated on dvd's,illegal copying is a felony,and punishable both with jail time and monetary compensation.
My friend thought the same as you....they will never go after a little person,only big corps,etc.......
Now i am not saying that you are in the same situation(not knowing what you have been selling),but i may be a bit nervous if i were you.
I hope everything does turn for the best.
Keep us posted.

jamesy · #45 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 09:57 AM

Bollock - I sent you a private message on this.

**aspkin** · #46 (**permalink**) 06-19-2007, 05:27 PM

Seems like a scam to me too. They're just calling, hoping you'll settle with them (giving them money) and disappear. One in five buyers in my business are scammers. It's sad.

Jonas · #47 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 12:17 AM

Aspkin how the heck can you even protect yourself from scammers when selling virtual items like warcraft items/accounts? I mean the goods are sent electronically so it's easy to do a chargeback.

bollock2ebay · #48 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 03:58 PM

I told them I knew what their game was and I even found out who the anonymous attorney was (actually the top guy at a prestigious law firm). I emailed him at his personal email address rather than the forwarding email address he was hiding behind. I told him he could run but he couldnt hide!! He told me I was a crafty SOB! I think that means he is admitting defeat but I will wait and see

bollock2ebay · #49 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 04:05 PM

As I explained elsewhere, as long as you dont admit anything, to get damages they have to take you to court because its a civil matter unlike bootleg dvds which is criminal matter. They threaten legal action to scare you into an admission so they dont have to spend time and money going to court, then they can gouge you for money. Dont make it easy for them

bollock2ebay · #50 (**permalink**) 06-20-2007, 04:38 PM

If you try and VERO a competitor it will rebound on you. No-one likes a stool pigeon even an Ebay employee. So they will mark you down for attention thinking you are probably guilty of similar offences to want to VERO someone

**aspkin** · #51 (**permalink**) 06-21-2007, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bollock2ebay

If you try and VERO a competitor it will rebound on you. No-one likes a stool pigeon even an Ebay employee. So they will mark you down for attention thinking you are probably guilty of similar offences to want to VERO someone

Actually they won't based on ebayemployee, "Ebay is based on points.The more suspecious things that you do on Ebay the more negative points /red flags pop up. The more things you do that ebay likes, the nore postive points you get..( feedback, snitching,paypal, etc..)There isnt "1" thing that you do on Ebay to get you kicked off. Thats why powersellers get away with alot of stuff is because they have so many brownie points. Belive or not you get alot of brownie points for telling on other sellers"

**aspkin** · #52 (**permalink**) 06-21-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas

Aspkin how the heck can you even protect yourself from scammers when selling virtual items like warcraft items/accounts, or Wikipedia Administrator Accounts (I want one of those!) ? I mean the goods are sent electronically so it's easy to do a chargeback.

We'll firstly we track their IP address to make sure the confirmed shipping address and their IP address matches up. Second we call to verify the order. We make sure it's not a little kid using their mom's credit card to order. Third we limit order sizes when using Paypal. I believe $500 is the limit we're willing to risk going through Paypal before we ask for a money order or wire transfer. And last we record every transfer of currency just in case a chargeback happens, or there is a dispute. We're running fine these days. When we first started, that's a different story. Let's just say, I was on the edge of quitting the business because of eBay scammers. Losing 3k in one day isn't fun.

I would love to get a Wikipedia Administrator Accounts as well, let me know where you get these, I have some back links to create.

**aspkin** · #53 (**permalink**) 06-23-2007, 12:43 AM

Lol, what is "gonzo Alabama"?

KeithL07 · #54 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 03:07 AM

Ok, I have spent 2 days reviewing the posts and guide to creating a new ebay account when you get suspended. Basically this week, I had 3 auctions removed because they supposedly violated the VERO program. I emailed the VERO member 5 times over the week with no responses at all. I had to take the ebay VERO quiz tutorial to be reinstated, which I was immediately. I now am terrified of being kicked off ebay for good, after 6 + years of 100% feedback!! I want to ask a few things that I couldnt find straight answers for:

How close am I to being permanently suspended from Ebay once I get the Vero warnings and have to take the tutorial?

My account is still active and I am buying/selling as normal. Is there anyway possible to change some of my name/contact info now so I can create a new backup account or will that not even work since I have used the current info already registered in ebay under my personal info for 6 years now?

Do I need to take the same steps outlined in the blog about how to create a new ebay accout once you are suspended or is there another way I can create a backup account now and prepare it to be ready in case I get permanently suspended?

I am making all efforts to remove trademarked names or anything else that will flag the VERO program members, but I am still concerned that there might be another bogus removal of my items and then I will be locked out with no backup accounts to use.

So, overall I am just looking for the best advice possible on creating a backup account while I still have my main account active, especially now that I read the ebay / paypal being linked thread. Please help with any advice possible!

**aspkin** · #55 (**permalink**) 08-03-2007, 11:59 AM

How close am I to being permanently suspended from Ebay once I get the Vero warnings and have to take the tutorial? - Usually eBay only gives you one or two chances before they suspend you.

My account is still active and I am buying/selling as normal. Is there anyway possible to change some of my name/contact info now so I can create a new backup account or will that not even work since I have used the current info already registered in ebay under my personal info for 6 years now? - It's probably not a good idea. It doesn't look good to your buyers or eBay.

Do I need to take the same steps outlined in the blog about how to create a new ebay accout once you are suspended or is there another way I can create a backup account now and prepare it to be ready in case I get permanently suspended? - You can create a new account anytime, just make sure you don't accidently link accounts together buy cookies or your ip address.

I am making all efforts to remove trademarked names or anything else that will flag the VERO program members, but I am still concerned that there might be another bogus removal of my items and then I will be locked out with no backup accounts to use. - It's best to stop selling any items that triggered the VeRO. It's really your only hope in saving your account.

So, overall I am just looking for the best advice possible on creating a backup account while I still have my main account active, especially now that I read the ebay / paypal being linked thread. Please help with any advice possible! - Follow the guide the the T, and remeber to seperate your accounts and you'll be okay.

princess · #56 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 02:28 PM

I wanted to get thouhjtd from all. Most of us visiting on this site have probably been effected buy vero at some point and most been suspended due to this.

How many VERO pull downs did you get before you got susspended - I know on one account I got 3 had to do the tutorial and on thenext one I was a gonner.Yet on another account I had two then never had one for 6 months and after the next was still fine.

I think if you get pulled by the same person makes a difference. whats your experience

**aspkin** · #57 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 04:40 PM

You can't fight VeRO, you'll always lose.

KeithL07 · #58 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princess

I wanted to get thouhjtd from all. Most of us visiting on this site have probably been effected buy vero at some point and most been suspended due to this.

How many VERO pull downs did you get before you got susspended - I know on one account I got 3 had to do the tutorial and on thenext one I was a gonner.Yet on another account I had two then never had one for 6 months and after the next was still fine.

I think if you get pulled by the same person makes a difference. whats your experience

I have had problems with vero although its simply selling decals that 100s of other people sell and mine dont even exactly copy the companies logos, etc. Most are aftermarket decals for vehicles, etc where Ive seen the same people over and over selling similar items for years with no problems. And their items are EXACT copies of OEM decals, etc, mine are simply aftermarket and most are custom designs. I think some companies just strike at random when they are in a pissy mood for these types of items.

Anyway, as far as the amount of warnings, I read on an actual VERO forum on Ebays forums where an Ebay admin said that they calculate the total # of veros within a 90 day period and if there are too many they may suspend you. But she also said that multiple VERO removals in one day (say you got 10 items removed in one day) still only count as one. So as far as I go, I am letting my main account cool off and listing some of these "questionable" items under another account. I am pretty sure that a seperate account will rack up its own new list of VERO warnings, I have looked into this and a guy who I deal with said he has 2 accounts and when one was on 2 week suspension due to vero, he used his other with no problems and the veros didnt carry over.

By the way, I have listed these items for over 2 years and only had 2 Vero issues with these particular aftermarket decals, I ran into trouble on the other Vero with a legitimate item i was reselling. So, i think in my case, its a type of item where the company doesnt really care too much, it just seems they want to be pricks off and on because they know they can. Thats all I can guess when Ive listed the items daily for 2 years and this is the 2nd vero problem since....

Chris Hanson · #59 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 09:27 PM

There is some trick to going undetected with the vero and copyright thing. We need to put our heads together and figure out how to avoid it.

I once had 3 items of the excat same thing listed at the same time and only 1 got vereod..?? i find that strange. I also had 2 accounts with the same items listed at the same time and they would just vero 1 account but not the other.

But it seems like when I put Attn: Ebay bla bla blahh they seem not to touch my auctions.

So is it a bot or a human person checking for vero?

altu · #60 (**permalink**) 08-09-2007, 11:46 PM

hi guys, I know this is a stupid question. what is "vero"?

musicman · #61 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altu

hi guys, I know this is a stupid question. what is "vero"?

The Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) - intellectual property rights owners.
What is VeRO and why was my listing removed because of it?

Chris Hanson · #62 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by altu

hi guys, I know this is a stupid question. what is "vero"?

Keep selling on ebay and you will know very soon..lol

KeithL07 · #63 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hanson

There is some trick to going undetected with the vero and copyright thing. We need to put our heads together and figure out how to avoid it.

I once had 3 items of the excat same thing listed at the same time and only 1 got vereod..?? i find that strange. I also had 2 accounts with the same items listed at the same time and they would just vero 1 account but not the other.

But it seems like when I put Attn: Ebay bla bla blahh they seem not to touch my auctions.

So is it a bot or a human person checking for vero?

I agree with getting to the bottom of this. Some of the aftermarket vehicle decals I sell are close to the OEM factory patterns but they mostly ARE different and do not copy the company designs. Plus we are talking mostly about letters and #s, such as a damn R shape or a 1000 logo on a friggin motorcycle, how can you trademark an R or 1000? its a damn letter and #. Anyway, I have listed the SAME items for 16 months and only 1 time got 3 auctions VEROED in 1 day, so I think the company was being @$$holes that day. Although I have heard that Harley Davidson is extremely picky and anal about their logo being used, so Ive stayed away from anything to do with them!

I was also considering putting in the auction : VERO disclaimer, these items DO NOT copy factory logos, etc. But, I was also thinking at the same time, if some VERO @$$hole deos come across the auction and normally would let it slide, he might decide to be a prick since I noted that and get power hungry and report it to ebay.

The stuff I sell is definately borderline, its not 100% trademark copying and there are 1000s of websites out there offering aftermarket motorcycle and vehicle graphics using EXACT company logos, etc. So Im not sure where the line is on this or maybe most companies let it slide bc basically your helping their business bc most vehicle manufacturers offer NO type of aftermarket logos or decals... Anyones thoughts on this?

**aspkin** · #64 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 08:34 PM

I've always thought an actual VeRO member would search eBay for his products, scan the description and report what he wanted out of there. If you add a disclaimer, that could help save your auctions, but it's not guarantee. Also, I feel there is an automated system setup by either eBay or a VeRO member that scans for certain auctions with keywords not supposed to be there. Like I said earlier, you can't win with VeRO. It's better to get pass it and sell somewhere else.

Chris Hanson · #65 (**permalink**) 08-10-2007, 10:15 PM

hell no. I copied a powerseller ebay seller listings words and I still got veroed and he didnt. Powersellers rule! The one with fattest pockets wins regardless.

Vero aint **** but a money thing and the sonner you relize the sooner you win

stealthdog · #66 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 03:26 AM

I started off selling Beatle albums...no problem with Vero there. Then I got a Louis Vuittion Hand bag from my mom...sold it for a good price. So I began selling them...in all honesty some where reall and some were not. Long story short I received four 3-day suspensins and then two 14-day suspension and one 30-day suspension and finally the big boot was given to me. I had another account at the same time selling the same item...but it was shut down first warning. why one account was given so many chances whilw another wasn't...I still can't figure out.

DogFacedBoy · #67 (**permalink**) 08-13-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stealthdog

I started off selling Beatle albums...no problem with Vero there. Then I got a Louis Vuittion Hand bag from my mom...sold it for a good price. So I began selling them...in all honesty some where reall and some were not. Long story short I received four 3-day suspensins and then two 14-day suspension and one 30-day suspension and finally the big boot was given to me. I had another account at the same time selling the same item...but it was shut down first warning. why one account was given so many chances whilw another wasn't...I still can't figure out.

Man, I can't believe the one account got so many second chances.

I was selling some knockoff lighters and cut and pasted from another lister who was running 3 or 4 a week, because I figured he was able to fly under the radar. I eventually got VERO'd after a couple of them.
Of course EB is so vague (for security reasons) and after reading the policy I couldn't figure out if the listing was pulled because of VERO or because I lifted the other guy's description.
Long story short, after the second one my account was suspended under I did the online tutorial. The third one got me booted for good and for some reason last week my acount with 100%/100+ FBs got hit for (almost a year later) being associated.

What happened to the good ol' days when a guy could buy a genuine "replica" Rolex on ebay? Described as such.

stealthdog · #68 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogFacedBoy

Man, I can't believe the one account got so many second chances.

You sound a tad bit jealous there dogfacedboy..

Seriously though I was always on the edge of my seat just waiting for it to be over. I can't explain why my one account got so much grace when the other one was kicked to the ground and immediately stomped. But then I have always wondered why some accounts get away with half the sh*t they do and others get away with nothing. Forget eBay being fair...they aren't even logical.

DogFacedBoy · #69 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 10:43 AM

My account last year got Vero'd for selling knockoffs.
The first time it got hit it just said for violating ebay's "intellectual properties" policy.
Well I was new to selling and saw so many listings for what I was selling that looked nearly identical so I kept an eye on them to see which ones brought the highest prices and didn't get removed. When it came time to list my item, I took the pics and then cut and pasted (now I know that was wrong, but at the time it sure seemed like that was what everyone was doing to list this item) the text from another listing that had appeared several times. Just a few hours before the end of the auction the listing was removed.
The problem at the time was that ebay was so vague (for security reasons...LOL) in telling me why it was removed that I didn't know how I had offended and what to change for the next time I listed. Another one (removal) came along and then I had to do the "tutorial"
I let things cool off for a while, listed the same item (with a carefully thought out description) and listed the item again on a Saturday night. By the time I got home that night, the item was off and so was that account forever..3 strikes and I was out.
Since the last strike came late at night on a weekend I am almost certain that in both cases I was "reported" by another seller (competitor). He only sold the item that I was selling (about 30 at that point) he described it as "authentic" when it was clearly a ⊗⊗⊗⊗...even had a feedback saying that he sold a ⊗⊗⊗⊗.
He is still an active user, but hasn't done a transaction (at least through that acount) in a while.

My question is how is it that the other seller clearly skated through the whole time (30 or more to be exact) and I got clobbered?

Jack · #70 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 11:14 AM

Does emailing the owner of the IPR to ask the reason for the report and to request a dismissal

a) help often
b) hurt matters by bringing it to their attention (just in case it's all automated)
c) doesn't do anything. They ignore you.

Goods on the shelf:( · #71 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 03:07 PM

Hi all

Hope you can give me some advice so i can actually avoid getting suspended!

I was selling a tangible (physical) product on ebay for 3 months without any issues until i got VERO'd

I have perfect feedback and looked after all my bidders! if the product didnt work i refunded, if they needed tech support i gave it. This was all going well until one guy had problems paying me. He was an ebay newbie and i was his first ebay auction! He contacted ebay for help because he sent me an email explaining that he talked to a nice lady called X in ebay customer care who sorted his payment problem and just after i came home and got his email in my inbox I then got another one from ebay saying i'd got VERO'D!!!!

What gets me about this sequence of events is that the ebay person knew she was going to VERO my auction so did she

a) Tell the person he should not bid on the item cause she was going to VERO it cause she thought the seller should not be listing such an item and thereore the user should not be bidding on it so thereore dissapoint the biddder or

b) Sort out the users payment problem so she doesnt have to tell any bad news to the bidder or get into a tricky situation of a user calling for help actually goes away empty handed, then half an hour later VERO's the auction for the future. B What else!!

In case your wondering my items is legitimate and legal to sell but we all know how it is impossible to challenge these spot decisions of ebay people.

So Some Questions!

1) I've waited 3 months now without setting up any other account or relisting anything at all on my account and the VERO email has dropped off the radar on my inbox so should i start listing again on the same account? How many VERO strikes before I'm out?

2) If i list with the same title am i going to get hit with an instant VERO? Are accounts monitored that have had a VERO on them for a relisting of same item? Fortunatley my item is not one that would have a third party constantly bothered or on the look out for any such listings to contact ebay when they appear it was just by chance i got VERO'd.

3) Should i change the auction listing? I was thinking instead of text having a picture alone as my main auction listing which i can resize and rename and rehost on a different site everytime i setup an auction. Therefore they cannot scan the text (if they do that) on my listing if its just a picture, the name, size and location of which will be changing between auctions so they have nothing other than title to get me on.

3) All problems seem to stem from getting suspended.(which i haven't got yet) If i play safe and just move on when i get a VERO on an ebay account and ditch it for another one can i use the same paypal email address with each of these new ebay accounts to collect payments? I.E. If i set up a new ebay account and after a month building up the feedback start selling at which point i add my old pay pal email address as the payment method (but not linked) to an account which had an item which was VERO'd but wasn't itself suspended am i going to get VERO'd or suspended in this new ebay account?

4) Will i probably get suspended rather than VERO'd on a newer account? If i build my new account up over a month buying stuff (tangiable stuff) and with a perfect feedback rating then list 1 item becuase my account is only a month old will i probably get suspended rather than VERO'd or will VERO still come first if i do look like a genuine newbie account listing something i shouldn't?

Thanks again

**aspkin** · #72 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 03:10 PM

Too much thinking right now (my morning), I'll come back to this.

Goods on the shelf:( · #73 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 03:29 PM

Thanks Any Help Appreciated. Morpheus ....I mean Aspkin. And thanks for setting up such a great resource.

**aspkin** · #74 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 05:20 PM

1) I've waited 3 months now without setting up any other account or relisting anything at all on my account and the VERO email has dropped off the radar on my inbox so should i start listing again on the same account? How many VERO strikes before I'm out?

You can't compete with VeRO's, you'll eventually be suspended permanently if you continue selling.

2) If i list with the same title am i going to get hit with an instant VERO? Are accounts monitored that have had a VERO on them for a relisting of same item? Fortunatley my item is not one that would have a third party constantly bothered or on the look out for any such listings to contact ebay when they appear it was just by chance i got VERO'd.

If that's the case, then it wouldn't matter. It could help that you change the title, but if they're not looking for you, then what's the point.

3) Should i change the auction listing? I was thinking instead of text having a picture alone as my main auction listing which i can resize and rename and rehost on a different site everytime i setup an auction. Therefore they cannot scan the text (if they do that) on my listing if its just a picture, the name, size and location of which will be changing between auctions so they have nothing other than title to get me on.

The only problem with that is, eBay doesn't allow image only auctions. You'll have to have some text in there.

4) All problems seem to stem from getting suspended.(which i haven't got yet) If i play safe and just move on when i get a VERO on an ebay account and ditch it for another one can i use the same paypal email address with each of these new ebay accounts to collect payments? I.E. If i set up a new ebay account and after a month building up the feedback start selling at which point i add my old pay pal email address as the payment method (but not linked) to an account which had an item which was VERO'd but wasn't itself suspended am i going to get VERO'd or suspended in this new ebay account?

You'll need to add a different email to your Paypal account and use that for your eBay account if you go this route. If you use the same email used on your other account, you'll be linked.

5) Will i probably get suspended rather than VERO'd on a newer account? If i build my new account up over a month buying stuff (tangiable stuff) and with a perfect feedback rating then list 1 item becuase my account is only a month old will i probably get suspended rather than VERO'd or will VERO still come first if i do look like a genuine newbie account listing something i shouldn't?

Probably VERO first.

Chris Hanson · #75 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 09:35 PM

hey, with the vero I'm believe that if you wait about a month or so you can begain listing the same products again but I wouldnt chance a good account with that. I would rather start a whole new account

Chris Hanson · #76 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 09:54 PM

Dog Face, was the other seller a power seller?

DogFacedBoy · #77 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 10:19 PM

He is (surprise, surprise) no longer a registered user, but I am 99.9% certain that he was not a power seller.

Excuse my ignorance (I am still learning) why would that allow him to break the rules so blatantly?

What is involved to obtain this seemingly "untouchable" status?

Chris Hanson · #78 (**permalink**) 08-14-2007, 10:32 PM

Because he is making Ebay more money

Goods on the shelf:( · #79 (**permalink**) 08-15-2007, 05:42 PM

Thanks for the Advice Aspkin. I've got some more thoughts not just about ebay so I've submited another message thread to the forum.

Capt Quahog · #80 (**permalink**) 08-18-2007, 10:59 AM

What does VERO (VERO-ed) mean? Can't recall hearing that term before. Read your post twice and don't understand it. Have actually three eBay accounts since 1999 and 2000. Unless things have changed, I don't think eBay cares about multiple accounts at the same location. That's if the Users at the mutual ISP address aren't bidding among themselves. Do know that new software used by eBay can instantly track the ISP and will suspend all the accounts assigned to that Internet address whether involved in a VIOLATION or not.