Seller Threatining me with copyright

[studio]

Originally Posted by barrycruan

Have you also just been reinstated?

Unfortunately not

[schris142]

Originally Posted by studio1one

My advice is just get off the listing.

I have just had an Amazon account booted for IP infringement. 3 year old account turned over more than 1 million last year and because of 2 -- yes 2 complaints from 'IP Owners' -- for this read other sellers selling unbranded Chinese goods but owning the EAN of the listing, we have been life banned.

Amazon sucks sometimes.

how the hell do you turn over 1 million im lucky if i make a tenner a month

[n8zzz]

Originally Posted by schris142

how the hell do you turn over 1 million im lucky if i make a tenner a month

Right, like he's going to tell you the secrets of his success, lol. Honestly, I figure most of the people on this forum make at least 5k profit per month. Usually because most of us do this full time and have the dedication to this line of work to have researched enough to find this forum.

Anyway, didn't mean to get sidetracked from what I was intending on saying. OP I would suggest getting off the listing immediately and just apologizing. I had a 100% legit golden account suspended exactly 3 months ago to the day for this exact reason. If the seller has lawyers.. and he chooses to use them to send legal documents of the infringement to Amazon.. there is a very good chance Amazon will suspend your account, no questions asked.

Situation:
1. This was a generic China item
2. The seller threatened me in Amazon messages (with no consequences other than a supposed warning)
3. The seller attempted to buy all 1000 of my units which were FBA. Luckily I saw this coming because he warned me he would do it via Amazon messages. He said he would A-to-Z claim the entire order and keep the merchandise or send back broken stuff anyway. (I was able to contact FBA and have them manually cancel it, 100 units still got through however)
4. After all that shyt, Amazon still suspended my account 1 month after it had happened. Btw, after the BS, I chose to stop selling on the listings.. the suspension still came within the 1 month.
5. I appealed and didn't even get a canned response. Nothing came.. ever.
6. I complained to the BBB, it was a huge waste of time. Amazon gave 3 canned responses to the BBB; finally in the last response they admitted that my account would never be reinstated.

Conclusion: I did not infringe upon anything. Legally, I was correct. I would have only been infringing if I put the other seller's logo on the generic merchandise, which I did not. Theoretically, you can sell an icecube tray to someone through an iMac listing, but the customer won't be happy and eventually you'll get canned for it. You are not infringing upon anything because you weren't claiming it was something else.. you didn't put iMac on the icecube tray. In my case, the seller did not have special rights to the generic China crap.. they merely had a registered trademark, which I never infringed upon.

Welcome to the future of Amazon. This is how more advanced sellers are playing the game. If done successfully, revenues are much higher. I was not mad at the seller that did this to me. I was inspired.

[Sandy D]

Sellers who have the power with amazon have been known to try and push little sellers out of the way with using any means possible.

If you are correct and in the right I would fight it back.

[zoneout]

Originally Posted by n8zzz

Right, like he's going to tell you the secrets of his success, lol. Honestly, I figure most of the people on this forum make at least 5k profit per month. Usually because most of us do this full time and have the dedication to this line of work to have researched enough to find this forum.

Anyway, didn't mean to get sidetracked from what I was intending on saying. OP I would suggest getting off the listing immediately and just apologizing. I had a 100% legit golden account suspended exactly 3 months ago to the day for this exact reason. If the seller has lawyers.. and he chooses to use them to send legal documents of the infringement to Amazon.. there is a very good chance Amazon will suspend your account, no questions asked.

Situation:
1. This was a generic China item
2. The seller threatened me in Amazon messages (with no consequences other than a supposed warning)
3. The seller attempted to buy all 1000 of my units which were FBA. Luckily I saw this coming because he warned me he would do it via Amazon messages. He said he would A-to-Z claim the entire order and keep the merchandise or send back broken stuff anyway. (I was able to contact FBA and have them manually cancel it, 100 units still got through however)
4. After all that shyt, Amazon still suspended my account 1 month after it had happened. Btw, after the BS, I chose to stop selling on the listings.. the suspension still came within the 1 month.
5. I appealed and didn't even get a canned response. Nothing came.. ever.
6. I complained to the BBB, it was a huge waste of time. Amazon gave 3 canned responses to the BBB; finally in the last response they admitted that my account would never be reinstated.

Conclusion: I did not infringe upon anything. Legally, I was correct. I would have only been infringing if I put the other seller's logo on the generic merchandise, which I did not. Theoretically, you can sell an icecube tray to someone through an iMac listing, but the customer won't be happy and eventually you'll get canned for it. You are not infringing upon anything because you weren't claiming it was something else.. you didn't put iMac on the icecube tray. In my case, the seller did not have special rights to the generic China crap.. they merely had a registered trademark, which I never infringed upon.

Welcome to the future of Amazon. This is how more advanced sellers are playing the game. If done successfully, revenues are much higher. I was not mad at the seller that did this to me. I was inspired.

You are allowed to threaten people with phony A-Z claims thru Amazon messages and get away with it???? WOW!

[Shalimarr]

Originally Posted by Ukdirect

This happens loads on Amazon, although the product might be some generic Chinese item the seller owes the EAN number for the listing.

I've been on both ends of this and amazon will remove your listing if you don't. Best thing to do is get your own EAN numbers to create your own listings

How do you get your own EAN numbers?

[n8zzz]

Originally Posted by zoneout

You are allowed to threaten people with phony A-Z claims thru Amazon messages and get away with it???? WOW!

Indeed! I was even on the phone with an FBA rep who was completely on my side. He involved his manager, said that they would send them a warning. After that, the BS STILL persisted from the seller. Another "warning" was sent out. I was thinking to myself, "hehe, these guys must not know how much they are playing with fire." This business (by my calculations) is grossing somewhere between 1m - 2m on up per year. If it were me, I wouldn't have risked such behavior. But as I said in my previous post, none of that mattered. I was the one that got banned and I can say with about 80% certainty that it was because of the seller's lawyers. They tried to sue me as well.. and tried to buy a couple items directly from me (rather than fba). Luckily it was very obvious. I reported this to Amazon, letting them know that this business is attempting to buy items from me repeated to extort information (my address). And this was of course just so they can serve me and make my life more difficult.

Even though I was in the right here, this extortion is extremely effective. If another seller can actually serve you, you need to respond, otherwise a default judgment is given. If you have to pay to defend yourself and they're out of state (most likely the case), you are super boned. You really have to be careful where you step when selling on Amazon now. Trust me bros, I have been served, so I know the deal..

[zoneout]

Absolutely unreal... actually it was Amazon that steered you down the wrong path to begin with. If they hadn`t misled you about what would/could happen you wouldnt have suffered this ordeal. I am sitting here flabbergasted. Geez you figure some generic crap has got to be safest thing to sell and then go thru this hell, forced to play chicken with a well-heeled seller with a bunch of pitbull lawyers. So how is someone supposed to know in advance what listing is OK to sell under?

[rsot]

Originally Posted by Sandy D

Sellers who have the power with amazon have been known to try and push little sellers out of the way with using any means possible.

If you are correct and in the right I would fight it back.

The successful sellers on AZ know the ins and outs - if I had a hot item on AZ I would push people out too - its the trade.

[Kelly441]

Well in the future when I create my own listing with an unbranded item I will put my logo on the package and listing and boot anyone who tries to infringe.

This is just another reason why to have multiple accounts.

[n8zzz]

^That seems to be what everyone is doing. So now instead of having like 2 or 3 listings for a certain item, you often times have 8+

It's saddening to see something like 10 listings for the exact same thing being called 10 different things. Amazon has been trying to prevent duplicate listings for a long time. I'm sure plenty of you have seen 2 listings that you're selling on be combined into one. But it feels like Amazon has given up now. They surely must know what has been going on, but it perpetuates anyway. I'm not sure the sellers market will exist like this in the distant future, but for now it's somewhat of a necessary evil I suppose.

[Post Modern Sleaze]

The trouble is that applying a different brand to a generic product does effectively make this a different product. Each brand has worth something different when compared with another and thus the value proposition is different - Consider Value Tesco Beans and Heinz Beans - same beans, different package.

[myrong]

Thanks for the replies

I finally had the time to challenge this- the seller has prob made a few thousand since this started.

The thing is putting your own sticker on the packaging without permission from the manufacturer is not legal. Also i will buy his product and im pretty sure the barcode will be different from the one he listed- will also report that.

I could make my own listing in the time being...but then amazon can violate you for making a listing thats's already in the catalouge. Im starting to like ebays VeRO policy after all this

[barrycruan]

If the manufacturer sells it as generic then it's perfectly legal to brand it himself, with or without their permission.

[falken]

Originally Posted by myrong

btw this person sticks a sticker of their company logo on the item and uploads it on amazon as if its their product

It sounds like the seller branded his product and created a listing for it. If that's what he did and you clicked "sell yours here". Then he is using Amazon policy to get your product removed. This keeps you from piggybacking on his listing page with your unbranded item even if it is from the same seller in china. He created the listing and got the product reviews if any for the product. He is also actively keeping others from coming in and undercutting his selling price which I'm sure is what you were going to do. This way his products value doesn't tank to next to nothing. Because, what's the difference everyone is getting them from china for next to nothing, and many products get destroyed in value since someone in that demographic is happy making a profit of 1%.


If you brand your own you can create your own listing. You'll need to get a UPC code for your product. Then you can add it to the Amazon catalog, and when you do, be sure to protect the listing like the seller you were going to piggyback on and the item will not lose it's value.

[falken]

Originally Posted by slim jim

Maybe the manufacturer has no idea that this person is putting a sticker on their product and reselling it. If I put my logo sticker on an iPhone I cant resell it as my own brand

No you can't, Apple has branded their iphone. You can certainly brand a generic set of wires from china. So long as they are truely generic and you pay for a UPC code. This meets Amazon's requirments. Many people do it there.

[falken]

Originally Posted by myrong

The item has no 'original' maker that's why i do not understand the IP rights.

Getting my own EAN is really difficult as i would need to register with the company that creates barcodes.

Luckily i did a google search and found an expired listing for the product!

I should learn from him and use this against this person who only under cuts me and immediately puts up a listing for the same product as me whenever i make a new listing

You mean, exactly what you did to him? When you're on his side of the street, he's a genius right?

[falken]

Originally Posted by Sandy D

Sellers who have the power with amazon have been known to try and push little sellers out of the way with using any means possible.

If you are correct and in the right I would fight it back.

They do it the right way. The only reason they were found in the first place is because of the value and ranking of the product, the value is high because the seller keeps other parisites off his listing. If he did not, the listing would be selling for next to nothing. Most people that found his listing thought "I'll sell it for 1 cent less" or "I'll sell it for $1 less" etc, until it is worthless. If you created a listing and followed policy to keep others from selling your branded item, you would not think these sellers are doing anything wrong.

These sellers are not doing anything wrong, it is perfectly legal to brand a generic product, and this is within Amazon's policy. These sellers are guilty of being well educated and informed in what they are doing.

[falken]

Originally Posted by zoneout

Absolutely unreal... actually it was Amazon that steered you down the wrong path to begin with. If they hadn`t misled you about what would/could happen you wouldnt have suffered this ordeal. I am sitting here flabbergasted. Geez you figure some generic crap has got to be safest thing to sell and then go thru this hell, forced to play chicken with a well-heeled seller with a bunch of pitbull lawyers. So how is someone supposed to know in advance what listing is OK to sell under?

The first sign should have been the fact that the op wouldn't have had a matching UPC code for the product. That code belongs to the branded product. They probably found the listing in the Amazon catalog by searching for what they were selling using keywords, found a similar item and just clicked "Sell yours here"

Amazon doesn't steer you down the wrong path at all. I was paranoid before selling on Amazon and eBay so I read all their policies for a couple months before I started and this is covered.

I don't think most people understand that two parties could buy the exact same item from china, pay the money to brand the item and get a UPC code for it, then sell them on the market as separate items. Because this can be done and Amazon's policy is that the product must contain a UPC code, AND since you branded the product you HAVE your own UPC code... You can list the item as your own brand and you are the "IP" owner to that particular product. Since that's the case you can protect that item and it's value by following the policy to take down people trying to undercut you and destroying the value of the product in the process. That policy involves making a purchase to verify the authenticity and then you give Amazon some sort of proof that it doesn't match. I don't know how they verify things, but this was mentioned in a section about protecting your IP rights for your items.

[a.v.limited]

if he owns isin or has his name in listing or description then you cant list it

remove it or 3 strikes and banned from amazon

[gdsco]

The truth of the matter is everybody does it, list generic item with own logo and puts that as the discription so nobody can list against it, we are gutted when that listing becomes a top rated one. I hate these kind of listing but I am starting to do this, if you can't beat them,join them lol. ....shame on me I know

[rsot]

No shame on joining the successful bunch