Possible ebay return item lawsuit

[agent006140]

Originally Posted by surplusseller4u

Paypal told me to report the buyer and ebay to FBI and FTC. Not to sure which rout to take yet, thought i would give this a try. I assume if i message the buyer soon, and inform him i will, will i get the machine back, or the money.

Its ridiculous this can happen with a pickup item, BUT, its a learning experience...

He did not steal from you,Ebay goofed ,while the case is being investigated,the bot closed the case and refund the buyer.
The buyer did not steal,he just got a freebie.
In most cases if it is a small amount,Ebay will reimburse you out of its own pocket since it was the bot,but for 7K,it is too much money,they just hope you would just go away.
Instead of going after the buyer,go after Ebay.
see if you can get a higher up Ebay manager and explain there is a flaw in its policy,while case is being reviewed by a human,bot should not be allowed to intervene.

did you post your case on Ebay,without the link to urge others to join class action suit.

[agent006140]

ebay policy is after the case is closed,seller/buyer would have to work out the difference between themselves outside Ebay.
Assuming the buyer used his credit card,Ebay refund him via the same ,meaning it is a credit transaction of the same amount,the result becomes a wash.
if Ebay wants to take back the money,it would have to initiate a new charge of 7K,but what would be the excuse,no merchant can go around charging someone 's cc unless it is for goods and services,and the new charge is neither goods or services?
You see what is going on here,the first charge is for a purchase,the credit is a reversal of the charge,now if Ebay makes another charge,what is the reason?
I think this is the reason Ebay washes its hands and said deal with it yourself?
Is there any one on this forum who is familiar with merchant account ?

[surplusseller4u]

Originally Posted by agent006140

He did not steal from you,Ebay goofed ,while the case is being investigated,the bot closed the case and refund the buyer.
The buyer did not steal,he just got a freebie.
In most cases if it is a small amount,Ebay will reimburse you out of its own pocket since it was the bot,but for 7K,it is too much money,they just hope you would just go away.
Instead of going after the buyer,go after Ebay.
see if you can get a higher up Ebay manager and explain there is a flaw in its policy,while case is being reviewed by a human,bot should not be allowed to intervene.

did you post your case on Ebay,without the link to urge others to join class action suit.

Yes, that is basically how it has come to, except the buyer did lie, he lied about it not working, and took it apart. In this way, ebay, yes, as you said has a bot that closes cases. I spoke with dozens managers, in RECORDED conversations, they lied to me several times, over the phone. The company they outsource to, just does not care. Yes, i posted on the forum, but two reps have already removed any links to have others join the lawsuit. I put a link, they removed it, i put a bit link, they removed it, i put a image with the link, they removed it. Beyond putting message me to explain your story, i am not sure in their forum how to get sellers to join.

[surplusseller4u]

Originally Posted by agent006140

ebay policy is after the case is closed,seller/buyer would have to work out the difference between themselves outside Ebay.
Assuming the buyer used his credit card,Ebay refund him via the same ,meaning it is a credit transaction of the same amount,the result becomes a wash.
if Ebay wants to take back the money,it would have to initiate a new charge of 7K,but what would be the excuse,no merchant can go around charging someone 's cc unless it is for goods and services,and the new charge is neither goods or services?
You see what is going on here,the first charge is for a purchase,the credit is a reversal of the charge,now if Ebay makes another charge,what is the reason?
I think this is the reason Ebay washes its hands and said deal with it yourself?
Is there any one on this forum who is familiar with merchant account ?

I am not sure how the buyer paid, all i know is through paypal, could have been through credit card, either way, that does not help me. The buyer was refunded through paypal. Paypal already told me, that ebay initiated the refund, because my paypal account is hooked to ebay, as a way to pay fees. Ebay requires, or you do not sell, either a credit card or paypal. Since he paid through paypal, and the case was in the buyers favor, ebay refunded him. Without caring where our item was, 4 states away, that was picked up... No one in the ebay forum has commented other then i should keep calling ebay and telling them they broke their own policy, so far that has not helped....

[agent006140]

of course Ebay rep removed your link urging others to join a lawsuit against Ebay on Ebay site,there are other sites you can post.
whether your item works or not,it becomes a he said,she said situation,no one but the two of you know the truth,but your buyer altered the item,thats violation,whether ebAY or Paypal or cc,he should lose the case.
Just came across an idea last night,instead of a lawsuit which could go on for years,where do you live,is there any newspaper which could help you,newspaper loves a story ,and it is Ebay and a local resident .business losing money.
see if someone can help,tell them, your side of the story,point out Ebay is at fault for giving back the money,ask them to contact Ebay to verify before publishing it in the newspaper?
see what is Ebay's reaction??
I know in the past Ebay has made good with faulty return ,like $1k,it does not hurt to try.

[agent006140]

did you have the $7k sitting in your Paypal account when buyer opens a case?
When a buyer opens a case on Ebay or Paypal,it will immediately withhold that amount from your account,if your account is empty,then it becomes negative and Paypal will ask you to transfer fund to bring it to neutral.
if you do not,then any future payments coming into that account would be used to offset that negative balance.
you can also go to ebay seller forum and search for cases like yours and get their Ebay iD and contact them ,not sure if Ebay rep will read it?They do read private messages.

[Redman]

Originally Posted by surplusseller4u

Maybe i can add you as a plaintiff, but still need more sellers to qualify for a class action.

Pm me if this goes anywhere, I'll join in for sure

[rsot]

Originally Posted by surplusseller4u

I am not sure how the buyer paid, all i know is through paypal, could have been through credit card, either way, that does not help me. The buyer was refunded through paypal. Paypal already told me, that ebay initiated the refund, because my paypal account is hooked to ebay, as a way to pay fees. Ebay requires, or you do not sell, either a credit card or paypal. Since he paid through paypal, and the case was in the buyers favor, ebay refunded him. Without caring where our item was, 4 states away, that was picked up... No one in the ebay forum has commented other then i should keep calling ebay and telling them they broke their own policy, so far that has not helped....

I guess your in good hands with agent006140 - best of luck

[james13v]

Originally Posted by agent006140

He did not steal from you,Ebay goofed ,while the case is being investigated,the bot closed the case and refund the buyer.
The buyer did not steal,he just got a freebie.
In most cases if it is a small amount,Ebay will reimburse you out of its own pocket since it was the bot,but for 7K,it is too much money,they just hope you would just go away.
Instead of going after the buyer,go after Ebay.
see if you can get a higher up Ebay manager and explain there is a flaw in its policy,while case is being reviewed by a human,bot should not be allowed to intervene.

did you post your case on Ebay,without the link to urge others to join class action suit.

Of course the guy stole. lol. He took apart the product. Which already means he filed a false money back case. So unless he gives the product or the money back, HE STOLE.

[surplusseller4u]

Originally Posted by james13v

Of course the guy stole. lol. He took apart the product. Which already means he filed a false money back case. So unless he gives the product or the money back, HE STOLE.

Well said, i am not sure if i want to take the criminal route JUST yet tho. I am always been for someone to allow second chances in life. However with that said, you are exactly right, he knew he was filing a false money back, he provided proof he took the item apart, like a idiot. The only step taking right now is posting on forums, included ebays right now, to get advice, maybe get other sellers who have the same. Looking to go the class action route if i can, as to make ebay pay for letting this buyer do this. Just reading the BBB, you can see right now, 5000+ complaints, and it looks like they have been doing this to many people for a long time. Only difference between me and most is its not small to hundreds, its thousands. I have the proof, and i will fight. This company makes billions a year, people, common, hard working people sadly rely on the site to support their families, and they steal from them. In so many ways, if it is not the almost 8% fee to this, its beyond ridiculous...

[surplusseller4u]

I filled out the BBB review, awaiting it to be reviewed and posted. Next, after i dictate the 14 conversations i have with a dozen supervisors, managers and their half a dozen lies, i will file a BBB complaint. If only there was a way to be able to contact some of the others who posted BBB reviews. I believe my lawyer would have more then enough to file a class action. I understand privacy tho, so i am trying other routes. Maybe the BBB will allow me to post the link to my story in the review, not sure yet, until its live, i did add it tho. I have been doing from some of the advise here and searching, reading return item stories, and see if i can message them.

[surplusseller4u]

After submitting to the BBB i got this email from them
it states
What happens next?
Once you have confirmed your submission, BBB will forward your review to eBay Inc. to give them the opportunity to comment. BBB may edit your review according to BBB policies to remove personally identifiable information and derogatory statements that are inflammatory, gratuitous or irrelevant. Only the edited versions from both the consumer and the business will appear on the company's BBB profile on our website. Please note that if you have filed a complaint against this business using BBB's complaint services, or if you are not a customer of the business, your review will not be posted.

Please feel free to contact BBB with any questions or concerns.

Thank you.

BBB of Los Angeles and Silicon Valley

[surplusseller4u]

Got a new email from the BBB today, looks like i have to resubmit, i find it very interesting all the reviews for ebay, have ebay blocked out, they say xxx. Is there something going on between ebay and the BBB now. Anyone want to see it, head over to the BBB website.
the email states, so they do not want my link to sellers to tell their story, or, they do not want ebays managers names posted, not sure what they mean by sensitive information.

Your review of eBay Inc. (Ref# 117760) has been evaluated by Better Business Bureau staff. We were unable to accept it for the following reason:

The review contains sensitive information.

If you have any questions or if you feel that this is an error, please feel free to contact us.

Thank you.

BBB of Los Angeles and Silicon Valley

[surplusseller4u]

UPDATE:
The ebay forum post only is getting bigger, over 4000 views, sellers have been signing up, i am still in contact with attorneys as well.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Sellin...97823#M1522633

so far people are reading on reddit as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ebay/commen...ember_09_2019/

[agent006140]

Originally Posted by james13v

Of course the guy stole. lol. He took apart the product. Which already means he filed a false money back case. So unless he gives the product or the money back, HE STOLE.

He did not steal the product,he won the case and got his money back,it is an Ebay snafu which allows the robot to intervene while a human being is looking into the case.
He is not obligated to return the product ,seller would have to arrange to have the item returned.
If allowing an item to sit in his yard and not returning the product by spending $1k on freight is theft,then yes,he stole it,
Seller lists the item on Ebay and agree to comply with Ebay rules,INAD case if the seller loses the case,seller pays return shipping.
You need a lawyer to explain to you what is the definition of theft?/
(lets say this is you who ordered an A/C from a store,it does not work and you called customer service.
They quickly refund your money ,and they never send you a shipping label or instructions on how and where to return the A/C or schedule a pick up from a commercial carrier,what would you do?
Would you pay $100 out of your own pocket to return the item and to what address? or would you just leave it in a corner /basement of the house and see if the company will ever contact you for return>
you got your money back,thats all you care,if they dont want the A/C back,you would eventually trash it or give it away.

[agent006140]

class action lawsuits could drag on for years,and keep the lawyers gainfully employed,some one refer to litigation as going into a sausage making machine,you get the picture.
Come to think of it,if I were Ebay,I would pay for the return shipping,buyer gets his money back and seller gets his machine back.
This is a he said/she said situation,no one but the buyer and seller ,not Ebay nor BBB,or LAWYER know who is telling the truth,know if it is defective or altered,so best it can do is let the seller gets his item back and relist and the buyer gets his money back to buy another piece.
How much would it cost Ebay?$1k/

[agent006140]

Originally Posted by james13v View Post
Of course the guy stole. lol. He took apart the product. Which already means he filed a false money back case. So unless he gives the product or the money back, HE STOLE.
------------------
tearing apart the product he bought is not THEFT.
Not returning the product is not Theft if the venue stated for INAD case,seller pays return shipping .
Seller is not willing to pay $1K to have the item returned to him and buyer is not interested in paying $1k to have the item returned.
I have seen cases when the buyer starts charging storage fee.

[surplusseller4u]

Originally Posted by agent006140

Originally Posted by james13v View Post
Of course the guy stole. lol. He took apart the product. Which already means he filed a false money back case. So unless he gives the product or the money back, HE STOLE.
------------------
tearing apart the product he bought is not THEFT.
Not returning the product is not Theft if the venue stated for INAD case,seller pays return shipping .
Seller is not willing to pay $1K to have the item returned to him and buyer is not interested in paying $1k to have the item returned.
I have seen cases when the buyer starts charging storage fee.

Really?? Storage fees? Really interesting, so say if i know for a fact the buyer owns a business, if i issue a return order, and he does not do, maybe be able to put a lean on his business, interesting tho.....

[agent006140]

In the eBAY auto forum,buyers will buy a car,pays a deposit via Paypal but never bother to arrange pickup ,it just sits in the seller garage or wherever,some sellers do not have spare space to store a car which is sold already.
if the seller is in business of selling cars and he pays to have these cars parked somewhere,he would forfeit the deposit or charge a storage fee.
BTW,paypal deposit is not refundable with auto sales on Ebay.
If I were you,I would ask Ebay to pay for the return shipping so you can have it back fix it and sell it again,instead of waiting for the lawyer to round up enough sellers to wage a class action suit,but then I am not You

[james13v]

Originally Posted by agent006140

He did not steal the product,he won the case and got his money back,it is an Ebay snafu which allows the robot to intervene while a human being is looking into the case.
He is not obligated to return the product ,seller would have to arrange to have the item returned.
If allowing an item to sit in his yard and not returning the product by spending $1k on freight is theft,then yes,he stole it,
Seller lists the item on Ebay and agree to comply with Ebay rules,INAD case if the seller loses the case,seller pays return shipping.
You need a lawyer to explain to you what is the definition of theft?/
(lets say this is you who ordered an A/C from a store,it does not work and you called customer service.
They quickly refund your money ,and they never send you a shipping label or instructions on how and where to return the A/C or schedule a pick up from a commercial carrier,what would you do?
Would you pay $100 out of your own pocket to return the item and to what address? or would you just leave it in a corner /basement of the house and see if the company will ever contact you for return>
you got your money back,thats all you care,if they dont want the A/C back,you would eventually trash it or give it away.

jesus, man lol. Seriously? The guy took apart the item, even tho he admits the machine works. Opening up a case after doing so, is already going against policy and trying to get something you don't deserve. That alone would have constituted theft. Trust me, no court in the country would say " oh, it's ok, the guy gets to keep the item. No harm done".

And do you honestly think the seller didn't contact the guy?

And $1000?? the guy picked up the item HIMSELF! You don't think he can return the item, HIMSELF? You think the buyer was actually waiting on a return label or something? Do you really believe that?

I swear, I have no idea how your posts can be so all over the place. One post, you give good advice. Another, you give advice that has nothing to do with what anyone was talking about. Then another, you post stuff like this. It's quite incredible really.

[james13v]

Originally Posted by agent006140

I have seen cases when the buyer starts charging storage fee.

Put up or shut up.

[agent006140]

read his post again,the item is 8 feet tall and weigh over 2000 lbs and the buyer sent a shipper with flatbed to haul it away,4 states away!.
yes,buyer tried to use the item and then fIle INAD,while Ebay reps are reviewing the case,Ebay robot went ahead and closed the case since seller did not send buyer a return shipping label.
Ebay is the one to blame,when a case is being reviewed by a rep,it should have an option of stopping the robot from intervening,also the robot should be programmed to stop asking seller to send return shipping label when it is a local pickup?
I repeat ,buyer did not steal the item,just because an item which he did not pay for is sitting somewhere in his backyard or front lawn or factory means he stole the item,seller is free to retrieve the item,if you follows this thread,seller never make an effort to get his item back,he spent most of his time dealing with Ebay and getting nowhere.
BTW,how do you or me know who is telling the truth?
Does the item work as described/
Did buyer really alter the item?
Did any of us see and examine the item before and after?
this is why a sales venue like Ebay decides -return the item,so seller can resell and buyer can use the money to buy elsewhere?