Who is in the wrong here?

[techworld]

I am looking for an impartial opinion here as I have purchased a stealth account from another seller via the forum and unfortunately that account has been banned.

The account cost £290 in total including the documents required and was purchased at the end of August although I did not begin using it until the end of September.

I purchased the stealth guide beforehand and made it clear to the seller that I wanted an idiots step by step guide to make sure I did nothing wrong (even though I had a good idea from the stealth guide and things I read up on the forum). This was provided and we confirmed the do's and dont's which was all fine.

I basically purchased a new dongle and new computer for use solely on the stealth account so there was no possible way of IP addresses being linked from my old banned account. I never logged into any personal accounts or websites and this computer and dongle had the sole purpose of being used for the stealth account. I listed no more than 5/6 items for sale over the space of the month and sold around 50 items with an average price of about £4-£5 and nothing high risk however recently I received an email stating the account has now been banned. The confusing part was that the email sent to me was from eBay Germany (the email was in German too) and I have never sold in any country then eBay UK from the stealth account or any of my old banned accounts. The ban type was code: MC081.

The other part which puzzled me is that my own personal eBay is banned however my personal Paypal is absolutely fine and had its ban reversed a long time ago so there is no problems with this however the ban on the stealth accounts was against both the eBay account and the Paypal account. Surely if this ban was through the fault of my own actions then only the eBay Stealth would have been banned or equally my own Personal Paypal would have been banned also.

There is some other reasons as to why I don't think this is anything I have done as well however I think the issue with using a brand new computer, brand new dongle and the fact both the stealth eBay and stealth Paypal were banned when only my personal eBay is banned are all reasons as to why this ban has not been initiated via my own actions. I am more than willing to accept responsibility for my own actions however based on the above alone, I cannot see how I could have caused a link in anyway.

I have put this to the seller a number of times however as well as having no direct response to my points above it seems to be a case of 'I have your money and don't need to help you any longer'.

I wish to use stealth for business and need a longer term stealth account but when faced with issues like this is just puts me off the whole idea.

Any assistance and opinions would be greatly received.

Thanks

[Ebayorbust]

ebay.de is Ebay Germany.

[techworld]

Thank you Ebayorbust, I have since corrected this information.

[bjammin]

I would hate to think that any seller on this forum would have the "I got your money" attitude, but then again I do not know the other sellers personally. I can say that account sellers do not have the time to go back and forth with customers that want to argue their points over and over again. And if a seller believed it was their fault, then there is really no issue in replacing the account. But that is also a matter of principle. No seller wants to replace a burned account if they feel it wasn't their fault.

If you received this ban after listing your item, then I would be concerned that it was something you did or did not do. What was the message that went along with your MC081? I have never had that one before.

As a seller, I try to make sure the customer knows what is going on, but it is the customers responsibility to learn how to operate stealth. It would be too time consuming for a seller to actually walk a buyer through it step by step. I want all customers to succeed because I am not going to refund or replace ppl when I truly believe that the account I sold them was just fine.

I am not saying you are in the wrong. I am just giving you my point of view as a seller. Either way, Good Luck with your resolution!

[Callidus]

This issue has been addressed with MULTIPLE emails with the OP.

There has been NO attitude as stated from the buyer, I have replied to at least 8 emails in great depth of which I have documented. I have offered a replacement account to be delivered to them as a gesture of good will, which I did not have to do, PLUS since the buyer has had the account since August and is now claiming it is my fault I really do not feel that I want to do ANY business with them. The offer of a replacement account is there but to be accused of 'messing the account up for them' is beyond ridiculous.

Learn stealth PROPERLY and these sort of issues wouldn't happen.

MODS: Any concerns please drop me a PM

[techworld]

I agree with what you are saying that neither the seller or buyer really know what the other party had done when creating or operating the account which of course makes it difficult to resolve.

With that being said, the ban took effect after a month of running the account and it was not run any differently than from the starting point. Before stealth, I continuously tried setting up accounts under my own details by changing small parts and some of these accounts would ban instantly and others would allow me to sell for a small period of time similar to whats happened now. I just don't understand what I could have done especially with taking the new computer and dongle plus the fact that both the eBay and Paypal are banned rather than just the eBay as is the case with my personal accounts. I literally cannot see any logic in this.

The exact email received is shown below. I have removed certain details such as the account name and date purely as I don't want this tying back in anyway from unwanted attention.

MC081 FPA#5 - Ausschluss vom Handel auf eBay - NAME REMOVED
From: eBay
Sent: REMOVED
eBay eBay sent this message to NAME REMOVED (NAME REMOVED).
Your registered name is included to help confirm this message originated from eBay. Learn more.

MC081 FPA#5 - Ausschluss vom Handel auf eBay - SELLING NAME REMOVED





Guten Tag NAME REMOVED (EMAIL REMOVED),

wir haben festgestellt, dass Sie gegen die eBay Nutzungsbedingungen verstoßen haben.

Wir haben Ihr Mitgliedskonto daher aus Sicherheitsgründen vom Handel auf eBay ausgeschlossen.

Nach Paragraph 4 der Allgemeinen Geschäftsbedingungen kann eBay ein Mitgliedskonto sperren, wenn konkrete Anhaltspunkte dafür bestehen, dass ein Mitglied gesetzliche Vorschriften, Rechte Dritter, die eBay-AGB oder die eBay-Grundsätze verletzt oder wenn eBay ein sonstiges berechtigtes Interesse hat, insbesondere zum Schutz der Mitglieder vor betrügerischen Aktivitäten.

Bitte beachten Sie: Sobald ein Mitglied gesperrt wurde, darf dieses Mitglied die eBay-Website auch mit anderen Mitgliedskonten nicht mehr nutzen und sich nicht erneut anmelden. Jeglicher Versuch sich erneut anzumelden kann dazu führen, dass Ihr Mitgliedskonto endgültig gesperrt bleibt.

Der Ausschluss vom Handel entbindet Sie nicht von der Verpflichtung, noch offene Gebühren an eBay zu bezahlen.

Wichtiger Hinweis:
Sollten Sie diese Entscheidung als ungerechtfertigt ansehen, setzen Sie sich bitte mit uns in Verbindung.

Wir bitten um Ihre Mitarbeit. Erfahren Sie mehr über die möglichen Hintergründe, warum Ihr Mitgliedskonto gesperrt wurde und welche Maßnahmen Sie jetzt ergreifen sollten:

http://pages.ebay.de/help/account/su...-accounts.html


Mit freundlichen Grüßen

eBay-Sicherheitsteam

[techworld]

Callidus, there was no need for you to comment on this and as I advised you via email, I would like an impartial view on this from other people who are knowledgeable within this field of work.

To state there has been no attitidue is an understatement. You took extreme offence when you seen this post was published and questioned as to why I put this up for debate. The reason I put this up for debate as we are in dispute and this is not a dictatorship and I see no reason as to why other forum users cannot contribute to this type of situation. I purposely made no mention of your details and had no intentions of doing so however you have clearly decided to do that for yourself.

You are right that you have replied to most of my emails, eventually, after being followed up repeatedly to do so.

In addition, your only offer before your post here was to give one account free if I purchase three, I don't really see this as a resolution especially at £290 per account. I communicated this issue to you on the 31st October, this is now 6 days later and do you think I would really be here asking for help on the forum if you had offered another account for free without requirement of another purchase, of course I wouldn't!

Finally, you mentioned I have claimed this is your fault, can you point out at which point I did this. As far as I see I have not directly blamed you and if I am at fault I will hold my hands up and take it on the chin. Based on the precautions I took and the events which unfolded, I simply do not believe I am to blame therefore only leaving the creator of the stealth accounts. Of course the thought is there however I have not once accused you of this and had hoped that someone with so much knowledge as you claim to have, could have came up with some explanations as to why this might have happened.

As mentioned in an earlier email, technology and detection procedures are ever changing therefore I cannot see why anyone would assume they are always right although for some reason you have this confidence in yourself.

I have read the stealth guide and referred to the forum as well as knowledge from other sellers and although I am not an expert, I am certainly not clueless.

[Bunneh]

You talk about having your own banned ebay account and your paypal is fine.
Did you log into the banned one with your new PC that had the new account you received on it?

As i have heard of the MC081 Being for Abusing ebay..

[techworld]

Hi Bunneh,

The new computer was only used for accessing the stealth ebay and the stealth Paypal. No other accounts were ever logged into from the new computer and dongle other than the stealth account as this computer and dongle were supposed to be solely for the stealth account.

Thanks

For me, the notice arriving in german and the fact both paypal and ebay were banned at the same time would raise suspicion.

However, no one here knows how you operated the account.

We also dont know how the account was made.

This is one of the risks you take when you buy accounts.

[techworld]

Hi Just_Smile,

Yes both those facts were also what made me suspicious alongside the fact I used a new computer and dongle.

I was hoping for the seller to be reasonable based on the level of information however it appears the fact that nothing can be proven was being used to their advantage which was something that annoyed me most and as you pointed out, one of the risks when buying stealth accounts.

[Blighty]

Just curious did you list on ebay.de then?

[techworld]

Hi Blighty,

No I have never sold anything or listed anything on any ebay other then the UK site. Our courier is Royal Mail and they are terribly expensive to send anywhere outwith the UK so we simply do not offer it and would have no reason to be on any of the foreign ebay sites.

Thanks

[benny]

with respect, you say you have not/are not blaming the seller but you do say

" I simply do not believe I am to blame therefore only leaving the creator of the stealth accounts."

which when i read it means to me that you are, or at least you want others to lay the blame on the seller for you,

as others have said its not possible to know what you did wrong if indeed anything but if a new account is on offer (which many people would not do) then if it was me i would take it and move on,
but i would not word things in a post that seems to try and get others to lay blame where you think it should go,

i do wish you good luck with the next one, double and double check everything ..... before you do it,

[Blighty]

very strange to get a message from Germany then on a UK account

[Bunneh]

I have to say this is really really weird that you got a german reponse on a uk ebay account that has a uk address, unless when it was created it was created on .de

Did you perhaps buy very cheap items for feedback on the account?

As when you get a suspension like this it is either for :
1. Being Linked
2. Selling Vero/Risky items (value doesnt matter)
3. Feed manipulation
4. violating terms

What category did you list in?

Sorry for the questions, trying to help you out here x

[techworld]

Hi Benny,

Almost but not quite. I was simply putting the thought out there that if it wasn't down to me then surely it must be down to the seller. Perhaps I should have worded this better but I was looking for any input that might point out something else which could have affected this other than eBay.

Unfortunately the offer was never made until the post was made and I do believe from further advice and private messages that there is more to it however I will simply have to move on and forget about the old account now.

Thank you for your comments and I will be ensuring to triple check everything going forward.

[ooooo.halo]

This is one of the risks you take when you buy accounts.[/QUOTE]

You are so right.

Its a tricky one for sure because either way someone loses out.
The seller will rightly stand their ground that he/she provided a.service and is not responsible after but the buyer also has a right to be upset that this issue has arose.

I would be interested myself to hear from other sellers and how they deal with these situations as i guess the nature of buying accounts.doesnt come with a guarantee.and.nor should it.

I sincerely hope that an amicable resolution can be achieved that works for both buyer and seller as this situation must be very stressful for both parties

[techworld]

Originally Posted by Blighty

very strange to get a message from Germany then on a UK account

I agree Blighty

[techworld]

Originally Posted by Bunneh

I have to say this is really really weird that you got a german reponse on a uk ebay account that has a uk address, unless when it was created it was created on .de

Did you perhaps buy very cheap items for feedback on the account?

As when you get a suspension like this it is either for :
1. Being Linked
2. Selling Vero/Risky items (value doesnt matter)
3. Feed manipulation
4. violating terms

What category did you list in?

Sorry for the questions, trying to help you out here x

Hi Bunneh,

No I didnt buy anything for feedback. We have lots of cheap items that we already sell through our other sales platforms so I know the ones to put on for quick and easy feedback without any problems.

Cheap unbranded cosmetic bags and cheap unbranded lighting were the items which sold. Nothing which would risk Vero. Never sold by any of my previous accounts and as we only sold I cannot see how they would look at feedback manipulation as an issue.

We literally sold like an everyday seller and there should have been no reason to ban this account based on our actions alone.

[ooooo.halo]

as others have said its not possible to know what you did wrong if indeed anything but if a new account is on offer (which many people would not do) then if it was me i would take it and move on,

Totally agree.
Its an offer that i would gratefully accept

[aspkin]

Please contact the account seller directly.

It's not appropriate to discuss private dealings in the open forum.

If you have any concerns send me a PM and I'll look into it.

Thanks!