Calling all socialists!

miketyson · #23 04-11-2016

What happened to the Cayman islands funds?

GhostOfAmazon · #24 04-11-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by miketyson

What happened to the Cayman islands funds?

Bernie Sanders, apparently.

EWHendo · #25 04-11-2016

But that's not socialism...

yotano211 · #26 04-11-2016

Good thing I am a Communist, I dont like them socialist.

rsot · #27 04-11-2016

yotano names names..../list

GhostOfAmazon · #28 04-11-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

But that's not socialism...

Yes it is. Socialism is about taking from the rich and giving to the poor so that all will become equally poor together! It's the best economic system ever, which is why the Soviet Union remains the dominant superpower in the world today!

yotano211 · #29 04-11-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsot

yotano names names..../list

What names or list do you want.

JamesNorth101 · #30 04-12-2016

Socialism, communism/Marxism are a bit different

Communism is a very extreme form of socialism. The standard model for socialism is not anything libel what was used in the USSR

The USSR aimed for Marxism but ended up with something totally different, much more totalitarian than anything else

GhostOfAmazon · #31 04-12-2016

I'm glad you brought that up.

The main "difference" between Socialism and Communism is that under Communism, the "means of production"or companies, are owned by the Government. Under Socialism, the companies, or "means of production" are owned by the people.

But let's use Amazon as an example. Under Socialism, the company would be owned by the people who work there. Let's just say for arguments sake that there are 50,000 Amazon employees. How does that work? How do 50,000 people split a website, the warehouses, the labor? Who's in charge? How do you justify to the employees that the ones who work developing the website, which requires a high degree of skill, get paid the same as the idiot with an IQ of 72 who packs the boxes?

Because as far as I can tell, there's no way for "Socialism" to function without becoming Communism. There HAS to be an organizing body, or else everything falls apart and descends into chaos, and then your "Socialism" is now "Anarchy".

Can you help me understand the difference?

JamesNorth101 · #32 04-12-2016

It will not ever work.

In theory its a really really great concept. Everyone putting in 100% effort for the betterment of mankind.

In reality some people are lazy, some people are selfish, some people are entitle ect. In a perfect society Marxism is a great form of government and economics.

Humans being humans means that the type of perfect society that would be needed for the theoretical Marxist concept to work is unlikely to come to pass anytime soon.

Watch Strek Trek for how it should work! Humans in that live under the same rules for the most part as Karl Marx conceptualized.

The Ferengi are meant to be the bad capitalists and the the humans the selfless Marxists. You can probably guess who the Borg represent!

GhostOfAmazon · #33 04-12-2016

Right, I know that, but I was wondering if you might be able to explain the differences in practical terms between Communism and Socialism.

I get the THEORETICAL difference, but brass tacks, what differences are there in real life terms?

vogeltron · #34 04-12-2016

I am LOST! Where is the Anarchy Page!!!!!

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!! CRAP! I DON'T LIVE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE!!!

MM78 · #35 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by vogeltron

I am LOST! Where is the Anarchy Page!!!!!

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!! CRAP! I DON'T LIVE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE!!!

Bruce Willis is on his way!

JamesNorth101 · #36 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Right, I know that, but I was wondering if you might be able to explain the differences in practical terms between Communism and Socialism.

I get the THEORETICAL difference, but brass tacks, what differences are there in real life terms?

True communism has never been practised so all you have is the theoretical differences. There is no real world model to compare it to, the countries that aspired to be communist countries fell well short.

GhostOfAmazon · #37 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

True communism has never been practised so all you have is the theoretical differences. There is no real world model to compare it to, the countries that aspired to be communist countries fell well short.

So what you're saying is, when someone says: "Bernie Sanders (or whomever) is not a Communist, he's a SOCIALIST!", what they're really doing is arguing semantics, because in real world terms, there's no discernible difference?

That's pretty much what I gathered, I just wanted to make sure I understood it correctly.

JamesNorth101 · #38 04-12-2016

Socialism is just the general term for a left wing political philosophy. Communism is the extreme end of the socialist ideology

Communism is for the most part the same as Marxism.

You can get less extreme forms of socialism, Germany is a good example. The UK also has blends of socialism even in a conservative government.

All communists are socialists
Not all socialists are communists. Most socialists (like Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn in the UK) practise a less extreme version of socialism. Neither are real communists.

That is all in theoretical terms though. To have a fully socialist form of government it is pretty much communism, very few people really wants a truly fully socialist government, most people want a blend.

EWHendo · #39 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Yes it is. Socialism is about taking from the rich and giving to the poor so that all will become equally poor together!

No it isn't.

vogeltron · #40 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Yes it is. Socialism is about taking from the rich and giving to the poor so that all will become equally poor together! It's the best economic system ever, which is why the Soviet Union remains the dominant superpower in the world today!

Basically its about killing the productive members of society to fund the lazy unproductive degenerates. Once they run out of people to steal from it always comes crashing down.

yankee · #41 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by vogeltron

I am LOST! Where is the Anarchy Page!!!!!

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!! CRAP! I DON'T LIVE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE!!!

I just changed my residence to NH.

GhostOfAmazon · #42 04-12-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

No it isn't.

So how do you fund your Utopia if it isn't stealing from people who produce more? Please explain how you elevate the poor and lazy without theft.

EWHendo · #43 04-13-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

So how do you fund your Utopia if it isn't stealing from people who produce more? Please explain how you elevate the poor and lazy without theft.

How does a government fund any services at all if it isn't "stealing from people."

Do you consider the taxes that you currently pay theft?

The current US system is a hybrid of capitalism and socialism that lies somewhere in the middle. The government imposes taxes on its citizens based on their income (as well as taxes on other things, such as property, purchases, etc.) in return for services, such as a military, roads, education, regulatory bodies... the list goes on.

What progressive candidates are calling for is not implementing true socialism, but rather providing expanded services to more people. Some of this may be funded by increased taxes, though not necessarily directly on income, though there is a lot of wasteful spending and cuts to currently funded programs that could also be reallocated to social improvement services.

I think that some also consider social improvement programs to be "Socialism," but fail to consider that other programs are "Socialist" as well. The military and the police are both funded by taxes collected by the government. I don't see anyone complaining that "They are taking my money to pay for soldiers to protect lazy people!"

yankee · #44 04-13-2016

Income tax is theft along with most other taxes.

Sell me a service, dont steal and take my money.