Forum

I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Long story short, I got a buyer who started doing business with me for over 6 months, he sent money to my PayPal account directly and I shipped items to him, everything went smoothly until a few weeks ago, he said what I sold to him were ⊗⊗⊗⊗ watches, which is not true, I bought the items directly from a reliable supplier and every time he order large QTY watches from me, I sent him a sample and ask him to verify before making the orders.

Anyway, a few weeks ago, he filed chargeback with his bank and my PayPal account balance went to -$62,000, PayPal said they would dispute the cases but would let buyer's financial institution decide, they charged me all the money plus $20 extra for each transaction even without requiring the buyer to return the items. I am sure I will lose the cases.

This is a real account with my business partner's real SSN and EIN attached on PayPal, what should I do? I am not going to pay $62,000 to a scammer, he's been selling the items bought from us for 6 months, now he's asking to receive all the money back

What's interested is that he was asking me to send watches in stock to him even after he claimed 'the item was ⊗⊗⊗⊗', he is a scammer but he knows how to abuse the buyer protection policy, now I do not have any money to cover PayPal debt, I am out of the business.

I am not a US citizen so I have no idea how to deal with, any advise will be much appreciated

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Really sorry to hear about this.

If it were me, I would be seeking legal advice first, brief them on the case before you start providing PayPal with documentation etc. and let them guide you on what to do.
If your items are authentic and you have a legitimate paper trail, you have a strong case to find and nothing to hide from.
Good Luck!

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Speaking to a lawyer in the Us is 100% the first step here

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

I live in UK now and I was doing business with my partner who lives in the US

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Thank you James, will do, I just wanted to know what would happen

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Thank you for the information, I was just surprised that people can file a chargeback for the money received 6 months ago, never happened before

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

What was the reason they gave when starting the chargeback(s)? Unauthorized transaction?

I'm asking because to the best of my knowledge there's no option to start a chargeback for authenticity. If these are "unauthorized" chargebacks, they should be relatively easy to fight by proving you shipped all of the orders to the person who controls the Paypal which sent payments.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Rough to hear but you have been given solid advice - time to deal with this step by step

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Contact a lawyer ≠ good advice. :ranger:

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

The reason according PayPal is 'other' but I believe that the buyer file a case for 'item not as described'

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

It it were me I would fight it every step of the way. It wouldn't hurt to contact a lawyer with the amount of $ involved.. but I'd also be doing everything I can on my own to fight the scam.

If he's claiming inauthenticity I would upload copies of every supplier invoice I have to the Paypal case and/or chargeback. If he's claiming unauthorized I would upload copies of Paypal sales records showing his confirmed address + the tracking number for each order. I would also include copies of every message you've sent this buyer.. especially messages towards the end when they started getting scammy.

In my opinion, you have a good chance of winning since this was a person who did business with you over an extended period of time. Hopefully PP will be able to see this was a repeat buyer who obviously had confidence in your products.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

And...what are you saying?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

This is the message I received from PayPal

One of your buyers opened a case for this transaction. This means the buyer has asked their financial institution to reverse the money for this transaction.

We want to help you, and we are disputing this case with your buyer's financial institution.

Here are the case details:

Buyer's name: xxxxx
Buyer's email: xxxxxx
Buyer's transaction ID: xxxx
Your transaction ID: xxxxxx
Transaction date: xxxxx
Transaction amount: $xxxx USD
Disputed amount: $xxx USD

$xxxxUSD has been debited from your PayPal account because of the following reason(s):

Other.

In addition, you have been debited a $20.00 USD chargeback fee. Under certain circumstances, that fee will be credited back to your PayPal account.

We understand you may not have been expecting this chargeback. If this debit has made your PayPal account balance negative, please log in to your PayPal account and add money to your balance.

If the financial institution decides the case in your favor, we'll notify you when the payment is returned to your PayPal account.

We'll email you if we need any further information from you.

Thank you for your patience during this process. We appreciate your business.

You can find additional information and tips about buying and selling safely on our

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

So they aren't even giving you the opportunity to upload any supporting documentation?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

$62,000 is not chump change, and you better believe PayPal will pursue legal action against you to recover this.

Talk to a business attorney asap.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

I did, but they sent me an automatic message saying they have debited the money from my account within 10 mins right after I uploaded the documents

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Unfortunately they pull the money from your account either way just to cover their own butts. Regardless of what happens you will have to live without those funds for at least a few weeks as the chargeback case progresses.

Throw money at a lawyer if you want but in the meantime you should upload anything relevant you can think of. Past conversations, sales records, postage records.. everything.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

so you are in UK,and your 'partner' is in US,where is the buyer?
Can we assume your so called US partner is the owner of the Paypal account which is now being debited for 62k?
Did all the sales go thru Ebay?
You need to press Paypal to find out what is the reason for chargeback -'other'.In your first post,it seems that your buyer is disputing the authenticity of the watches,so it is an item not as described.
Counterfeit goods ,if he wins,he does not have to return the item,they should be destroyed.
Chargeback can come in within 180 days,which is 6 months,some overseas transactions can be 1 year or more .
Depend on where he is ,if he is in a
civilised country where the banks which issue him the card are familiar with chargebacks .you may stand a chance of fighting the chargeback since it is a large amount and spans months and you said you have vendor invoices and you sent him a sample first.
He is buying your watches for resale,if they are not authentic ,it should not take him that long to find out.
Your problem is Paypal,this chargback is hitting Paypal,as it has the merchant account to accept credit card transactions so it is going to protect itself first,but it also knows you dont have $62k,so it will have to eat the loss if it /you lose the chargeback,so it should work with you to fight it.
You should have apply for a merchant account instead of using Paypal to accept credit card,as your merchant account provider will give you better service,speak with his cc issuer and relay back to you what it said and what your buyer said/
where is this buyer,?and where did you sell these watches,Ebay??or your own website?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Wonder why now :coffee:

If he had something good going why ruin it.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Paypal has seller protection for item not received and UA,but not item not as described.
It cannot help you if he wins the case of item not as described,but for UA,there is protection.
If 62k spans months and involve multiple transactions,how did you ship,are they signed for if $750 or more,do you still have the tracking and signature,who is the shipper?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

OP said the PAYPAL account is now in the red,he is in UK but the Paypal account belonged to someone in USA and has a debit balance of $62k.
If he loses the chareback,Paypal will go after the guy who owns this Paypal account,not him.
Paypal will pass his documents to the buyer cc provider(bank),but this hold means any incoming payments (if he is still selling ) will be used to offset that deficit.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

In my opinion, you have a good chance of winning since this was a person who did business with you over an extended period of time. Hopefully PP will be able to see this was a repeat buyer who obviously had confidence in your products.[/QUOTE]
----------
A chargeback is decided by the buyer cc issuer,not Paypal.
Since Paypal owns the merchant account,Paypal is being hit with 62k loss,the only way to appeal is to go thru VISA.MC arbitration court which is costly.
Hindsight is always 20/20,if this business relationship has spanned months and involve multiple transactions of high dollars,OP should have either apply for a merchant account or ask for wiretransfer/cashier check.
Traditional wholesaler/distributor/manufacturers prefer wiretransfer,due to the size of the transaction and cc fee involved,also there is no way to reverse a wiretransfer.,unless you have an account with them,then it is net 30 days/

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Good gosh man your nonsense and misdirection really isn't necessary in a thread with so much on the line.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Thank for the information, the buyer is based in the US, yes my business partner is now being debited for 62K, the buyer bought some watches from me through eBay in the first place(around January this year) , then he emailed me said he wanted to pay me via PayPal directly so I can pass the eBay fees on to him.

I believe that the buyer has sold most of the items otherwise he would not order more from me right? he said he had documents says that the watches are all ⊗⊗⊗⊗, which I do not believe it, even if he got the documents, it does not mean that the products were actually what I sold to him, but it is not important, my partner just could not afford $62K PayPal debt, it's not fair, we spent most of the money for the buyer's order, the buyer just wanted to screw us by the loophole.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

[QUOTE=ray;1012003]This is the message I received from PayPal

One of your buyers opened a case for this transaction. This means the buyer has asked their financial institution to reverse the money for this transaction.

We want to help you, and we are disputing this case with your buyer's financial institution.

Here are the case details:

Buyer's name: xxxxx
Buyer's email: xxxxxx
Buyer's transaction ID: xxxx
Your transaction ID: xxxxxx
Transaction date: xxxxx
Transaction amount: $xxxx USD
Disputed amount: $xxx USD

$xxxxUSD has been debited from your PayPal account because of the following reason(s):

Other.

In addition, you have been debited a $20.00 USD chargeback fee. Under certain circumstances, that fee will be credited back to your PayPal account.
---------------------------------------------
to come up to $62k,are there many of such emails from Paypal,if so,then there is $20 fee chargeback penalty fee for each transaction you lose.
how many and time period ?
The person who is nervous now is Paypal !

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Around 15 emails, the transactions are from Feb. to May this year

My partner is so panic now !


[quote=agent006140;1012036]

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Thanks for the information, I really wish I could win, I sent over all the blackmail emails received from the buyer, he said he wanted $25K back, I said I agreed but he must return the item, then the very next day he said he changed his mind, he wanted 50K, I said no, then he filed chargeback, then PayPal closed the account and leaves -62K negative


----------
A chargeback is decided by the buyer cc issuer,not Paypal.
Since Paypal owns the merchant account,Paypal is being hit with 62k loss,the only way to appeal is to go thru VISA.MC arbitration court which is costly.
Hindsight is always 20/20,if this business relationship has spanned months and involve multiple transactions of high dollars,OP should have either apply for a merchant account or ask for wiretransfer/cashier check.
Traditional wholesaler/distributor/manufacturers prefer wiretransfer,due to the size of the transaction and cc fee involved,also there is no way to reverse a wiretransfer.,unless you have an account with them,then it is net 30 days/[/QUOTE]

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

where is the buyer?
who and where is your supplier who provides you with the watches?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

you still dont get it?
it is a chargeback,Paypal is on the receiving end,Paypal does not decide,his cc issuer does.
You or your partner who owns this Paypal account should give Paypal a call and learn how Paypal go about dealing with such high $$ dispute.
It is Paypal's merchant account being hit and there is a very good chance if it loses,you and your partner would not reimburse ,so Paypal would have to do its best to fight it.
Do you know where your buyer sell these watches,does he have a website or store?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Can you get an official document from your supplier to show that these watches are authentic ? This will really help you.

The buyer is using the oldest trick in the book. "Item not as described".

It's good that you have emails showing he was prepared to accept a substantial partial refund which means he was willing to keep the items at a substantial discount. He will no doubt have a pattern of doing this to other sellers and it will be recorded in the form of "partial refunds" on his account history. This will help you.

Provide all the evidence to Paypal.

The 62k must be paid back to Paypal while they work on the case and fight back the chargeback for you.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

so buyer is in US,so he could have used a US bank issued cc,the way to find out is go to the transaction in your payment history and find out how much is the Paypal fee,is it 2.9 or 4.4%,if 4.4% then it is cross border transaction,meaning he is using a foreign cc.
If he is using a US cc,then this is is good news,as US banks have a dept to resolve chargeback cases and will review all your documents submitted.
May I ask what kind of watches did you sell,and is your supplier an established wholesaler? who and where are these watches made?

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

OK I got it, he told me once that he sold to someone who sells the watches on walmart, but not sure if it is the truth, he told me he wanted the money back because his buyer got 70% return rate, I was selling same items on eBay and only got 3.7% return rate

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Paypal usually allow time for the Paypal account holder to raise the money,since the chargeback has not been decided yet.
But OP said PAYPAL has closed the Paypal account,which means he cant use Paypal to accepting any payment if he wants to keep selling and accepting payment via Paypal.
Your partner needs to call PAYPAL and speak to someone who is experienced in dealing with chargebacks and make sure they have received all your documents and point out the buyer is a scammer,and Paypal should fight it

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Thanks, very useful information, It's 2.9%, he asked me to source different branded watches (Movado, Michael Kors, Casio etc. he even asked me to source him branded glasses , bags etc, but I do not know anyone who sells them) anyway I bought these watches from a reliable supplier in Canada, but I do not have all the knowledge to verify the items I did not sell before, what I did is to send him samples and let him verify them before making orders from me, he ordered 500 PCS MK from me around middle of May and he confirmed that he would take them all after I sent the sample to him, he even asked me to send Seiko watches I have in stock after he filed PayPal cases, I have all the emails as a proof

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

Are the watches actually legit? The way you keep saying you sent him samples and he agreed makes me think they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and you and him both knew it.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

If these are ⊗⊗⊗⊗, then you have no chance of winning the charge back regardless of the buyer knowing they were ⊗⊗⊗⊗ OP.

I would be on the phone to the supplier asking for written / signed proof with a professional letter head stating they are authentic items.

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

It does sound like you sold phake goods...

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

why dont you go to WMT site and find the seller,they do have third party sellers and they screen them carefully

Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
 

if his buyer sold them to someone who sells on WMT and get such a high return rate,WMT would have banned him already,also check AMZN,SEARS.