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- PayPal Talk
( https://www.aspkin.com/forums/paypal-talk/)
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
I am not asking for any illegal advise, people who come to this forum for help, if you are not willing to help, that's fine, you don't know me, so stop judging someone you do not know, 'scammer' 'fraudster' 'crooks'? you've been acting like a self-appointed public avenger. I wish you never been wrong in your life. Quote:
Originally Posted by tinsoldier
(Post 1012521)
I've said my bit, I believe you are a scammer who has been scammed.
I also dont think it would be wise for this forum to condone offering you any help, your posts on this forums suggests to me you're operating outside of the law.
I appreciate that this forum attracts crooks and we naively help them to create accounts. But that's where it stops, if fraud is likely then I suggest all help stops.
I believe you are a fraudster and this forum should wish you well and send you on your way.
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| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 06:47 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinsoldier
(Post 1012509)
Didn't you recently promise to stop posting utter rubbish.
I'm beginning to think you're deliberately trying to disrupt this forum and need banning.
:ban?::ban?::ban?:
| when you own this board,you can tell me what to do,in the mean time,why dont you block me and take a break,make some decent money ,not nickels and dimes |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 06:50 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
This is for Tin Soldier,not OP-
FBI,US customs,state,city auditors,law enforcement ,brand name manufacturers and their imitators,venue staff,its competitors all lurk on popular sites .
if you cant take the heat,.get out of the kitchen |
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 06:51 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray
(Post 1012536)
he wanted all the money back, is it really fair?
| No.. but that's business and it sounds like this guy has a good understanding of his rights.
Maybe you should chargeback all of your purchases too. |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 06:53 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinsoldier
(Post 1012544)
I'll judge you if I want.
I believe you are a crook who is looking for a way to recover their gains from the sale or counterfeit goods. I also have my doubts about the legality of your banking practices amongst other things.
On this basis I am happy to suggest to this forum that they give you a wide berth.
If you don't like that then take it up with your solicitor. ( that's what we call them in the UK where you claim to live)
Good luck, you're going to need it.
| Dont pay attention to Tin SOLDIER,self righteous ignorant fool! |
| garry9061 | 06-20-2019 06:53 AM |
I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Not sure this thread is going very far anymore... |
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 07:09 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
There was never any place for this thread to go in the first place.
I come here to have discussions about what other sellers are doing online.. and this thread has served that purpose just fine. Riding around on a high horse doesn't help anybody and is really just a waste of time. No single member is going to change what this forum is about (except maybe askpin). I don't care if there was a Bernie Madoff scale scam going on - I'd still like to hear about it because it helps me get a better understanding of ecommerce as a whole.
Good luck OP. I don't care what you did. That's between you, your partner(s), and your bank. Let us know how it turns out. |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 07:12 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaz0rz
(Post 1012546)
No.. but that's business and it sounds like this guy has a good understanding of his rights.
Maybe you should chargeback all of your purchases too.
| if he could do so,he would have done it already,but for such large purchase order,I doubt he used a credit card or paypal.
Hindsight is 20/20,OP should have asked for cash-wiretransfer is the best.
The traditional payment method for wholesale order is wiretransfer or cashier check,not credit card or paypal!!!!!!
Or if the retailer has an account with the wholesaler/manufacturer,corporate check,net 30 |
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 07:14 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012563)
if he could do so,he would have done it already,but for such large purchase order,I doubt he used a credit card or paypal.
Hindsight is 20/20,OP should have asked for cash-wiretransfer is the best.
The traditional payment method for wholesale order is wiretransfer or cashier check,not credit card or paypal!!!!!!
Or if the retailer has an account with the wholesaler/manufacturer,corporate check,net 30
| I agree it was suicidal using PP for these transactions.. but I don't know how OP was paying for their orders so I figured I would bring it up. :noidea: |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
I suggested the payment solutions to him but he would only agree to do the PayPal payment, I naively thought it should be fine as he's doing business with me for over 6 months with no problem at all Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012563)
if he could do so,he would have done it already,but for such large purchase order,I doubt he used a credit card or paypal.
Hindsight is 20/20,OP should have asked for cash-wiretransfer is the best.
The traditional payment method for wholesale order is wiretransfer or cashier check,not credit card or paypal!!!!!!
Or if the retailer has an account with the wholesaler/manufacturer,corporate check,net 30
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| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 07:31 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Many internet sellers are inexperienced or just anxious to get sales,Paypal/credit card fees eat into your margin,since wholesale orders are big $$ orders .not to mention possible chargebacks and INAD dispute.
I have read on other forums plumbers,electricians,caterers,hairdresser,photogr apher accept paypal payments and customers waste no time filing item not received once service is rendered! |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Don't you read my post? I sell 100% authentic watches to him, the only thing I am not sure is MK watches so I sent him the sample and let him decide, I am a middleman in this case, the eBay account was opened 10 years ago (5000 100% positive feedback ), never got any problem until linked PayPal banned the account for life due to the negative balance!
I would not bother post any questions here if I did it on purpose. Quote:
Originally Posted by tinsoldier
(Post 1012544)
I'll judge you if I want.
I believe you are a crook who is looking for a way to recover their gains from the sale or counterfeit goods. I also have my doubts about the legality of your banking practices amongst other things.
On this basis I am happy to suggest to this forum that they give you a wide berth.
If you don't like that then take it up with your solicitor. ( that's what we call them in the UK where you claim to live)
Good luck, you're going to need it.
| |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 07:39 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray
(Post 1012571)
I suggested the payment solutions to him but he would only agree to do the PayPal payment, I naively thought it should be fine as he's doing business with me for over 6 months with no problem at all
| the way I look at such situation is that -
if he really wants to do the deal,he would meet your terms!
Supermarkets sell money order for a low low fee to get customers into their store,some also offer Western union ,USPS sell postal orders,domestic bank wiretransfer $45,intl wire transfer $55.
Japanese and Canadian post office sell US $ postal orders,fair exchange rate ,and you can cash it free at USPS post office with proper ID,if deposited in your bank,it may charge a small fee.
Most folks can always find a supermarket,post office,bank or currency exch place within driving distance,if not,they can do it online. |
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 07:41 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Your buyer may have intended to chargeback you all along if they were insisting on Paypal for all payments. The person could have known this was an extremely high risk product that Paypal would happily allow them to dispute after they've had the opportunity to make tens of thousands of dollars selling the watches.
Lesson learnt there I guess. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
I got your point, I learned my lessons and thanks for the tips Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012577)
the way I look at such situation is that -
if he really wants to do the deal,he would meet your terms!
Supermarkets sell money order for a low low fee to get customers into their store,some also offer Western union ,USPS sell postal orders,domestic bank wiretransfer $45,intl wire transfer $55.
Japanese and Canadian post office sell US $ postal orders,fair exchange rate ,and you can cash it free at USPS post office with proper ID,if deposited in your bank,it may charge a small fee.
Most folks can always find a supermarket,post office,bank or currency exch place within driving distance,if not,they can do it online.
| |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Exactly, lesson learnt Quote:
Originally Posted by phaz0rz
(Post 1012578)
Your buyer may have intended to chargeback you all along if they were insisting on Paypal for all payments. The person could have known this was an extremely high risk product that Paypal would happily allow them to dispute after they've had the opportunity to make tens of thousands of dollars selling the watches.
Lesson learnt there I guess.
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| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 08:04 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
There is a similar case 1-2 years ago of a guy from USA ,he sold electronics goods to a guy in Eastern Europe,he paid using PAYPAL/AMEX card.
The guy prefers USPS first class shipping instead of USPS priority to save on shipping and avoid customs attention,the seller went along with it,shipping USPS first class with no tracking and signature confirmation
It went well for months,then he filed chargeback with AMEX.
The poor seller submitted all the shipping labels ,tracking showing it has left USA and all the correspondence between 2 parties,but nothing Paypal can do for him,AMEX ruled in buyer favor!
the amount is in 5 figures but nowhere close to $62K .
USPS intl first class.parcel select,media and priority envelope,small box have no tracking once it left USA,and none including express have signature confirmation,registered mail has signature but maynot be viewable online.
What he sold are smart phones and accessories,very saleable in Eastern Europe,the buyer made good money but Greed ,he wants to make more by paying zero for the goods . |
| nickopedia | 06-20-2019 04:56 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012587)
There is a similar case 1-2 years ago of a guy from USA ,he sold electronics goods to a guy in Eastern Europe,he paid using PAYPAL/AMEX card.
The guy prefers USPS first class shipping instead of USPS priority to save on shipping and avoid customs attention,the seller went along with it,shipping USPS first class with no tracking and signature confirmation
It went well for months,then he filed chargeback with AMEX.
The poor seller submitted all the shipping labels ,tracking showing it has left USA and all the correspondence between 2 parties,but nothing Paypal can do for him,AMEX ruled in buyer favor!
the amount is in 5 figures but nowhere close to $62K .
USPS intl first class.parcel select,media and priority envelope,small box have no tracking once it left USA,and none including express have signature confirmation,registered mail has signature but maynot be viewable online.
What he sold are smart phones and accessories,very saleable in Eastern Europe,the buyer made good money but Greed ,he wants to make more by paying zero for the goods .
| Yep, that's American Express.
AMEX by far has the most liberal rules when it comes to deciding in favor of the consumer on charge backs, even without proof. They are their own bank and make the rules, and it's possible to charge back well past the 540 days for an INR or NAD case as with Visa/MC. I've even seen cases where the charge back occurred YEARS later for an AMEX customer. |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 08:54 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
But the seller should have known better,buyer is claiming he did not receive the goods.
If he has shipped with tracking ,he would win the dispute.
And he did not take out any insurance either. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickopedia
(Post 1012703)
Yep, that's American Express.
AMEX by far has the most liberal rules when it comes to deciding in favor of the consumer on charge backs, even without proof. They are their own bank and make the rules, and it's possible to charge back well past the 540 days for an INR or NAD case as with Visa/MC. I've even seen cases where the charge back occurred YEARS later for an AMEX customer.
| Sad but true - another reason why many shops (at least up here) don't take Amex besides % fees, etc |
| james_112233 | 06-21-2019 01:34 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
AMEX usually have annual membership fees as well unlike many Visa/MC cards. I guess the protection AMEX offer to consumers is worth every penny then. |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 07:32 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
You also get better customer service,those online live chat guys/gals know Paypal/Ebay/AMZn well.
First year membership is free.
Years ago,when AMEX learns a certain merchant is not accepting AMEX,it will ask for its phone number so it can call him,probably offer him a good deal to accept AMEX card,dont know how it is done now. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
if paypal were to put a 62k balance on your credit report you can always challenge them in court for it and bring your evidence.......
paypal might back down before you head to court and just let it go.
if you sold authentic watches, then you should have all the necessary invoices to prove its authenticity to the judge.
The judge will just waive the judgement and take any negative marks from paypal off your credit report.
represent your case to a judge in court against paypal
if the buyer stole from you, contact the fbi, 62k is not a small sum. fbi will prosecute the buyer big time.
bring all invoices proving authenticity, and fbi police report with you to court..............paypal will be more sympathetic as the day goes along in court.... |
| nickopedia | 06-21-2019 01:05 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
H4ck is correct. If you are truly the victim of fraud, you have options.
You can start by filing a police report both in your local jurisdiction, as well as where the buyer is located. Have you already done this? If not, why?
Since you say you are in the UK, You can also complete an affidavit of fraud, which you can get for a low cost from a solicitor or Trading Standards. Brits usually take this type of thing a bit more seriously than in the USA. it doesn't take a lot of effort to find out what you need to do online and present PayPal with your evidence.
On the other hand, if you are really selling counterfeit watches, knowingly or not, you have other problems to contend with. That could be why you have not involved the authorities as of yet? |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 02:53 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
OP is in UK,the paypal account he used belonged to someone in USA,he bought these watches from someone in Canada and the buyer who filed $62k chargeback is in USA.
This buy bought 500 Michael Kors watches from him and resell them to others,these others sold them on WMT site and get many returns.
So OP is not getting the chargeback as it aint his Paypal account and he is not going to get a bad rep with his UK credit rating.
It depends on how Paypal deals with such situation,would it go after both OP and the Paypal account holder?
of course Paypal has more resources,but how far does it want to get involved in this case ,would exposing all these players help it Not to eat that $62k? |
| nickopedia | 06-21-2019 03:02 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012943)
OP is in UK,the paypal account he used belonged to someone in USA,he bought these watches from someone in Canada and the buyer who filed $62k chargeback is in USA.
This buy bought 500 Michael Kors watches from him and resell them to others,these others sold them on WMT site and get many returns.
So OP is not getting the chargeback as it aint his Paypal account and he is not going to get a bad rep with his UK credit rating.
It depends on how Paypal deals with such situation,would it go after both OP and the Paypal account holder?
of course Paypal has more resources,but how far does it want to get involved in this case ,would exposing all these players help it Not to eat that $62k?
| You bring up some valid points. I agree, as many other posters here do that the OP's situation sounds fishy as sardines.
That said, we don't have the actual truth. If we give the OP the benefit of the doubt and say his watches were 100% authentic pieces, then it would seem logical to involve the authorities given the amount of money involved, wouldn't it?
Can the OP give any reason why he didn't contact The Met, National Crime Agency, Trading Standards, or his local Ombudsman? as of yet?
If this happened to me, I would be reporting it formally to just about every agency I could think of, as well as involving an attorney, or solicitor as they are called in Britain. This not only adds credibility to your claim, but may protect you from PayPal's threats at the same time. |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 03:13 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by H4ck
(Post 1012844)
if paypal were to put a 62k balance on your credit report you can always challenge them in court for it and bring your evidence.......
paypal might back down before you head to court and just let it go.
if you sold authentic watches, then you should have all the necessary invoices to prove its authenticity to the judge.
The judge will just waive the judgement and take any negative marks from paypal off your credit report.
represent your case to a judge in court against paypal
if the buyer stole from you, contact the fbi, 62k is not a small sum. fbi will prosecute the buyer big time.
bring all invoices proving authenticity, and fbi police report with you to court..............paypal will be more sympathetic as the day goes along in court....
| can and will Paypal ding his credit when it is not his Paypal account which is getting a chargeback?it should ding his friend's credit.
also there is no Paypal seller protection for item not as described,buyer cc issuer is the one who should be convinced these are not counterfeit watches,not Paypal .
The only way to prove these Michael Kors watches are not counterfeit is to expose the seller in Canada,where did he get these 500 watches?
It should not be too difficult to find out,Michael Kors would be able to trace where they come from? |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 03:19 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
There are several websites which tell how to spot counterfeit Michael Kors watches.
If his watches sold on WMT site have a high return rate,the buyers must have checked authenticity to come to the conclusion they are not authentic.
The best way to find out is to contact Michael Kors and Company,they would be able to tell if these watches are authentic and if not,they would need to find out and persecute the manufacturer and the Canadian who sold him 500 ,how many watch companies can turn out 500 Michael Kors watches for one order??
Think ! |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 09:16 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
hate to sound like a parrot,tell your buyer to close the chargeback,Once you upload the Canadian vendor invoice of 500 Michael Kors watches,Paypal or the cc issuer can contact Michael Kors and Company and find out if he is a legit wholesaler/distributor.
Ask if any one of you (you,your friend with the paypal account,the buyer and the CANADIAN WHOLESALER want that to happen)
Also close this thread if possible !!!!!! |
| james_112233 | 06-22-2019 03:39 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
@agent006140
Aaaand take a deep breath. |
| rdh4life | 06-22-2019 04:47 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Well I thought id check this story out as its quite interesting...funnily enough i had something a bit similar (well slightly) happen to me..i bought a iphone xr off ebay and the seller shipped the item..guess what i open the item and its some no brand ebay watch!! Paypal wouldn't refund me as he had a tracking number and delivered scan and they at first tried to tell me i had no proof a watch was shipped..uk police didn't give a crap but i was a furious..so i looked at the weight of a actual phone versues what he sent...there was a difference..i also noted royal mail don't allow you to send phones because of the battery so put this to paypal too..after 3-4 phone calls i got someone who agreed and i got a full refund with some help from a few emails from royal mail..it does go to show that sometimes if you have nothing to lose go for it (oh and btw i only buy and sell on ebay stealths too so all this was on a stealth account.) ...
However i am still baffled by this all..am a ex-banker and the UK rules with most banks are 180 days for chargeback since the transaction date..as standard practise the bank will ask the customer what contact they made with you to try and resolve the matter..i would be asking paypal to see the chargeback full sheet sent by the bank..can u not contact the bank or have paypal not given that info?
id deffo seek legal advice too as it sounds like someones run a scam on you and is laughing on a beach with 62k |
| agent006140 | 06-22-2019 08:05 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
if someone sent you a watch instead of a phone,you should open a case of item not as described (not item not received) ,then Ebay 30 days Money back guarantee will send you a shipping label to return the watch with tracking,once delivered,you get your money back and shipping cost will be charged to seller's Ebayseller account.
If non Ebay,then Paypal will make you return the item at your own expense,unless you have applied for free return before purchase.
all these are handled by bots,no need to call anyone. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Truly an epic thread status is deserved here. |
| agent006140 | 06-22-2019 10:27 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Paypal owns the merchant account,as far as the banks are concerned,they are dealing with a merchant called Paypal,we are sub accounts within Paypal,they dont know us.
Paypal does not have to disclose any communication between them and the bank which issue the credit cards .
This is the disadvantage of not having your own merchant account to process credit card transactions.
BTW,Paypal will forward whatever you give them in a chargeback case,it will also send along some of its own findings such as audit trails like IP address etc in case of Unauthorised transaction. |
| phaz0rz | 06-22-2019 11:06 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
I know. And that's the problem when it comes to chargebacks on PP. You aren't using a real merchant account so you aren't entitled to see the sensitive information on the chargeback documentation (such as the full CC #, which shows when you use a real merchant account and you get a chargeback notice in the mail).
Anyway I was just pointing out that Paypal will not turn over the chargeback paperwork they get from the financial institution to the seller, so what rdh4life was suggesting will not work. |
| agent006140 | 06-22-2019 03:26 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
How does Spotify work?
what kind of payment processor does it offer?
I used to have a Propay account ,$35 fee a year,I pay for accepting credit card,making refund,and transferring fund to my bank account,it is still around,check it out ! |
| nickopedia | 06-22-2019 03:48 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Isn't Spotify a music service? I listen to it myself with my Echo (Alexa) speaker, but I wasn't aware they did anything financial.
This thread is actually about the OP who sold $62k worth of watches and got charged back on. We were all supposed to give him advise and might have scared him off with the direction this thread as turned. ;) |
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