Responding to chargeback F&F case

Dr.card · #1 12-13-2019

Hello,

Anyone have experience with chargebacks of Friends & Family transactions in paypal? someone exchanged with him paypal and he did a chargeback case.

Here is the screenshots:

http://prntscr.com/qagj6z
http://prntscr.com/qagjdk

What i need to respond to paypal?

agent006140 · #2 12-13-2019

This is an UA dispute,there is no seller protection since it is not goods and service payment.
You will lose

respond to Paypal,it may be able to trace that it is not an UA transaction

it is F &F,not goods and services,there is nothing to ship

if this is for goods and services,all you need is a shipping label proving you have shipped,no necessarily delivered and then you are protected.
but this is not about goods and services.

JamesNorth101 · #3 12-13-2019

The only thing you can do is point out to PayPal that they need to check the IP address and see if it was one used before

It’s always very difficult to win the cases like this

Dr.card · #4 12-13-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by agent006140

This is an UA dispute,there is no seller protection since it is not goods and service payment.
You will lose

Here is my options:

http://prntscr.com/qahd9t

i can say provided service with proofs or use a boxing method to ship something with tracking.

JamesNorth101 · #5 12-13-2019

That’s the only way to really stand much of a chance of winning the case

Have you got any tracking to the PayPal registered address?

Augus · #6 12-13-2019

What did you sell to him?

Dr.card · #7 12-13-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNorth101

That’s the only way to really stand much of a chance of winning the case

Have you got any tracking to the PayPal registered address?

No i don't as long as paypal asking for a tracking there is a chance, but i dont know the registered address of the paypal account. the payment is F&F so no address to be shown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Augus

What did you sell to him?

It is simple exchange i sold him btc for paypal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marquess

There's nothing you can do, but just wait for PP's decision. Most of the time you'll lose the case.

Paypal is waiting for my response. so i do have a chance. as you can see here http://prntscr.com/qahd9t there is option i already shipped the product or provided the service.

rsot · #8 12-13-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.card

It is simple exchange i sold him btc for paypal.

Oof ok - going to be difficult indeed

Dr.card · #9 12-14-2019

Here is what options i got:

For Product:

http://prntscr.com/qaqxfa

For service:

http://prntscr.com/qaqxn1

JamesNorth101 · #10 12-14-2019

Without tracking your unlikely to win the case

Always the risk when selling BTC for PP im afraid

Humm · #11 12-14-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.card

Here is what options i got:

For Product:

http://prntscr.com/qaqxfa

For service:

http://prntscr.com/qaqxn1

Let this be a lesson for you. In future, do not release the bitcoins until the Paypal payment has been withdrawn and reached your bank account. Unless you find an address associated with his Paypal account, then I don't believe you will win this case.

agent006140 · #12 12-14-2019

but you sold bitcoin ,payment is friend and family.
after making payment,you should receive an email from Paypal and there is a line which tells you if you are fully or partially qualify for seller protection,since it is F &F,IT IS Considered a cash gift to the recipient.
Also,you do not have his shipping address and it is too late now to send him something with tracking,save your money .
I think we are not to use Paypal for Bitcoin transaction,and even if it does,you are not paying Paypal any fee,it is called fee avoidance.
think of it,Paypal did not get paid ,why should it protect you from scam?

rsot · #13 12-14-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.card

Here is what options i got:

For Product:

http://prntscr.com/qaqxfa

For service:

http://prntscr.com/qaqxn1

Best of luck then to try?

agent006140 · #14 12-14-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsot

Best of luck then to try?

F&F is neither goods or services,it is a cash gift to the recipient.
Sender is now claiming UA.
If it were goods and services,then seller is protected -under UA,all he has to do is to show a shipping label which has been used to send the item to buyer shipping address ,it does not have to be delivered.
But in his case,it is neither goods or services,he received a cash gift.
The only chance he would win is if Paypal tracks the IP address which proves it is not an Unauthorised transaction.
If the sender loses dispute with Paypal,then he could go to his cc issuer and he will have a better chance of winning and OP will pay $20 chargeback fee .

Dr.card · #15 12-14-2019

I'm upset seems there is no chance even F&F transactions are reversible in Paypal. What made me mad is that before i sent Paypal through F&F to a trader and he did not sent me btc so i opened a case to chargeback my Paypal funds but Paypal closed the case to his favor. How come i lost my case with him if you said F&F transactions reversible whatever you do?? here is screenshots:

http://prntscr.com/qawewz

PPbb · #16 12-14-2019

because unauthorised transaction case means the person didn't authorize this gift payment to be sent to you and it's a valid reason. on the other hand, if you opened "item not received" case for F&F ... this is considered contradiction.

Dr.card · #17 12-14-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by PPbb

because unauthorised transaction case means the person didn't authorize this gift payment to be sent to you and it's a valid reason. on the other hand, if you opened "item not received" case for F&F ... this is considered contradiction.

in the above case i opened the case as unauthorized access and i lost it.

PPbb · #18 12-14-2019

I see... he is a scammer... he played it right... if you check the notes in the case... they say they found evidence of unauthorized access. what does that mean:

He may have used totally different IP... or ip from different country
or he logged in from different computer
or he recently changed his password and then sent the payment to you

I guess you didn't do any of the above.... so basically they didn't find any indication of unauthorized access on your account that's why they denied your claim.

agent006140 · #19 12-14-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.card

in the above case i opened the case as unauthorized access and i lost it.

you lost it because Paypal said it is authorised.

agent006140 · #20 12-14-2019

scammers know how to play this game well,they want you to send F&F as it is a cash gift,so you cant say ITEM NOT RECEIVED or Item not as described.
Unless you use a different computer with a different ISP etc to send him payment F& F and if he does not deliver as promised,then file UA dispute with Paypal.
But you can only do this so many times

Dr.card · #21 12-15-2019

Thank you guys i closed the case and refunded him we need to learn from our mistakes.

agent006140 · #22 12-15-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humm

Let this be a lesson for you. In future, do not release the bitcoins until the Paypal payment has been withdrawn and reached your bank account. Unless you find an address associated with his Paypal account, then I don't believe you will win this case.

emptying out your Paypal account would only turn your PAYPAL balance into negative territory,unless you plan to abandon that account,it does not help,
if he can find his address and mail him a receipt or candy with USPS first class mail with tracking would not help if buyer then file item not as described and return the candy with tracking.'
also F & F is cash gift,there is no physical goods or service change hands,his buyer knows what he is doing,he files UA,not INAD or INR.