Buyer wont return but wants refund?

[worththewait]

Guys I got an email through ebay today from a buyer. He told me that my item I sold him was ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and he wants me to refund him in total WITHOUT returning the item in question? He said that in line with eBay policy for counterfeit goods I will not return the goods???

Can he get away with that. I would be happy for the buyer to explain to me why he thinks that the item is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ but he jumped straight to demanding I refund him without returning the item. Do you think he is trying it on? What way should I approch this situation?

[pod]

Originally Posted by worththewait

Can he get away with that

Sadly, yes. Its one of eBays worst policies. They advise people that get ⊗⊗⊗⊗ to destroy them and get refund. He doesn't have to send it back. You have to refund without return

Judging by his message, he knows this and is set to screw you. I hate to say it, but you're screwed

[worththewait]

How can he prove to ebay that they might be ⊗⊗⊗⊗? He could use a doctored template from the brand to do this, or would this be possible?
I will try my best either way to get the return and see how things pan out. Thanks for the reply.

[pod]

If you haven't already admitted its bogus, give him full refund now [Have to anyway] and then say you are sorry, didn't know, but see if he can return so you can inspect it

But my guess he is just using loophole to get free item so wont matter what you do really

[jeffweico]

This guy planned this from the time he bought the item. He had no intention of actually paying for it. As Pod pointed out, all he has to do is claim it is a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, "certify" that he destroyed the item (which of course, he will not) and get a refund.

I really think that eBay should - and probably will - be sued for this policy. It is one thing for an independent expert to declare an item is a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, but to just let the customer decide if an item is ⊗⊗⊗⊗ or not and then be able to get it for free by simply claiming they destroyed it is ridiculous.

It is also legal for Customs to destroy counterfeits. Legally, you cannot bring in anything that is trademarked or copyrighted without a letter of authority from the copyright holder. So Customs is obeying US law. But eBay is REALLY CROSSING A LINE here.

Unfortunately, all you can do is refund the money. If you don't, the buyer will file a claim with eBay and they will do it, but then your account will be under scrutiny. The only way to beat this with eBay would be if you were an authorized dealer of the item in question. Unless that is the case, it makes no difference if the item is genuine or not.

Sorry I could not offer a more positive response.

[worththewait]

Guys does this mean that the buyer doesnt have to prove it to ebay from the brand in question? Does ebay just take the buyers word, that they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and he doesnt have to prove it with a letter or evidence from the brand to substantiate his claim? Thats absurd.

[pod]

Originally Posted by jeffweico

get it for free by simply claiming they destroyed it is ridiculous

Beyond absurd. I cant think of anything even close to this policy anywhere online.

A forced refund and return, sure. But free for just saying its bogus is crazy. Who makes the buyer an expert on item?

eBay just wants to put out the impression they are against knock offs [They make a killing off them]

No way in hell this doesn't catch legit items in the crossfire. This will blow up in their face to be certain

Originally Posted by worththewait

Does ebay just take the buyers word.

Yes. Its over. Period

[jeffweico]

Originally Posted by worththewait

Guys does this mean that the buyer doesnt have to prove it to ebay from the brand in question? Does ebay just take the buyers word, that they are ⊗⊗⊗⊗ and he doesnt have to prove it with a letter or evidence from the brand to substantiate his claim? Thats absurd.

Absurd, yes. Laughable, ridiculous, unfair... but so is eBay.

I could see it if the buyer had a letter from the brand owner (although even THAT could be abused - but at least it would be SOMETHING) but just the buyer's judgment call along with them "certifying" (meaning simply that they said they did) they destroyed it simply invites abuse. I have even seen posts on other forums (fashion) telling people how to get designer goods for free using this method.

I don't sell designer anything, but I would be scared to sell them on eBay since the potential for loss is so great.

And, as of November 1st, it gets even worse. In the event you have to refund the buyer who claims they got a ⊗⊗⊗⊗, you will NOT receive a refund of the eBay/PayPal fees.

[pod]

Forget the "average joe" weasel doing this for a freebie. Its just a mater of time before the real scammers get their teeth into this. Build up a nice collection of expensive goods pretty damn fast....

[Lyda]

And seller can't even leave negative after they get screwed like this. No wonder Ebay stock is plummeting and sellers are fleeing ebay like crazy...

[cortex]

^^are they REALLY fleeing? Doesnt look like it. Where ARE they fleeing to? The flea market?

[jeffweico]

Originally Posted by cortex

^^are they REALLY fleeing? Doesnt look like it. Where r they fleeing to? The flea market?

When a seller gets burned a few times, they either figure out how to build it into their budget as a cost of doing business, or they give up and stop selling online.

How many real $500 handbags would you be willing to lose before you said "enough is enough"?

Sadly, there is no real alternative out there. Amazon is an alternative for SOME things, but not for everything. And many people have tried to build sites that compete with eBay, but nobody has been successful yet.

Yahoo, MSN, Lycos, Excite, Auctions.com, Bonanzle, Etsy, eBid, etc...

Some like Etsy have carved out a niche, but the fact is that nobody has the traffic that eBay does. To create a REAL competititve threat to eBay would cost tens of millions of dollars. You would need a HUGE advertising campaign. The one company that could pull it off is Google, and they are absolutely NOT interested.

[cortex]

Yes I agree,...ive heard this story before. Tis a shame

[shadee]

I always wondered why they weren't interested in doing Google auctions.. With the amount of massive free advertising they could do for themselves, odds are it would turn out well.

[jeffweico]

Originally Posted by shadee

I always wondered why they weren't interested in doing Google auctions.. With the amount of massive free advertising they could do for themselves, odds are it would turn out well.

They have a good reputation. They don't want to tarnish it. The thing is, any site that allows individuals to buy and sell will have some scam artists. Google does not want eBay's problems.

[worththewait]

Guys thanks for the help on this.

I am not going to just issue him a refund for this. I want to ask him about the contact he had with the brand in question. I want names, times, transcripts of all contact he had with the brand (I know he hasnt because they dont get back to you as qucikly as he said they did). Im going to use this and say that I need this info as away to verify his contact with the brand as I have contacts there. Prob wont work but I dont care, I have to put up a fight. Not that bothered about my ebay account as I have others. I see also that the guy has left negative feedback for others, accusing them of selling ⊗⊗⊗⊗ aswell. This is a scammer buyer without a doubt. I also noticed that he sells branded items from time to time, but just not at the min..:-) Long runs the fox!!!

[needhelpplease]

Problem is, that it is a fight you will lose......why waste the time and energy.....if you dont care about the account anyway....take your money out of paypal and let paypal refund him out of their own pockets.....

[pod]

Originally Posted by needhelpplease

fight you will lose......why waste the time and energy..

Its that simple. Period. Its already over, no matter what you do. Done. Finished

Every minute you waste is gone
Your account, that makes money, is gone

I know why you want to do this and I understand. The guy is a thief and you dont want him to get away with it. He already has. Absolutely nothing you do changes thats. Forget him and do whats best for YOU

Closing an account that makes you money just on principal is dumb. Move on and keep selling.......

[waterproof]

I understand! I have been screwed by their policy 3 times. The buyer in all cases had recieved their items, let time pass and then turn you in.
In turn, they get your item and they get THEIR money back.

Can you believe that anyone would allow this type of policy to occur within their own business? Very sad, but very true and very sad to say the least!

And sometimes when you are Stealthing, you want to remain under-the-radar, so you can't say anything or fight it or you take the risk of being suspended.

Sorry for your loss

waterproof

[worththewait]

I now took the time to reflect on your advice guys and I have to say that you are correct. Why F**K up my account with 100% for this prick. As much as I hate it and it really REALLY makes my f**king blood boil here, I so badly want revenge, but I will issue him with a full refund without return of the item and try to be somewhat be polite about it, because he still has me by the balls with feedback violation.

Cheers again guys for making me see sense through my blood red mist.

[jeffweico]

I'm glad to hear it. The thing is, in business - ANY business - when you let your emotions get the better of you, then you have LOST.

I know it is very difficult to control. I have difficulty too.

But if you make every decision based on what is best for the business, then you cannot help but to be successful.

You did the right thing here.

[pod]

In all fairness, are you passing these off as real? If so, a few of these are coming your way and you need to suck it up. You dont want to hear it out loud, but he may have ripped you off this one time, but in reality you are in a sense ripping off every buyer [IF you are passing off knock offs as real]

Food for thought