Apple is going to sue me!!!

[oompaloompa]

Ebay can have as many records as it likes, it does not mean it is the registered persons real details account. If the lawyer could ask for and discover the owner of bank account from paypal, then I would say different - but that takes alot more legalities,

cell phone call, disposable email and a phone call to 'registered user'....is all they have right now

What I would do is change personal sim in phone so they cannot get back in touch, and if a letter arrives, call up number on letter and with a different voice/accent, be outraged, tell them it does not pertain to you, and tell them never to bother you again or it will be harassment...

..I know it sounds simplistic to deny, but until they make a solid move, why risk revealing anything...you are handing them your a$s on a plate

lawyers they are for later in the day......after all the simple stuff has been tried first......for after they have got a court order to get paypal to reveal bank account and then another court order for the bank to reveal your details!!!!!

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

Ebay can have as many records as it likes, it does not mean it is the registered persons real details account. If the lawyer could ask for and discover the owner of bank account from paypal, then I would say different - but that takes alot more legalities,

cell phone call, disposable email and a phone call to 'registered user'....is all they have right now

What I would do is change personal sim in phone so they cannot get back in touch, and if a letter arrives, call up number on letter and with a different voice/accent, be outraged, tell them it does not pertain to you, and tell them never to bother you again or it will be harassment...

..I know it sounds simplistic to deny, but until they make a solid move, why risk revealing anything...you are handing them your a$s on a plate

lawyers they are for later in the day......after all the simple stuff has been tried first......for after they have got a court order to get paypal to reveal bank account and then another court order for the bank to reveal your details!!!!!

I am already past this level, I can't deny anymore as the lawyer already made sure it is me.

If I deny now, I suppose the lawyer would simply send me a cease desist letter (called Abmahnung in Germany) and then I will have to play the game according to the usual rules.

[ebaystealth1974]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

I am already past this level, I can't deny anymore as the lawyer already made sure it is me.

What does he know "is you"? The person on the other end of the phone for such and such number...??

[rsot]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

Do you think they will accept the supplier info without the invoices?

They won't sue, but the the lawyer could make a few thousands from sending the "Abmahnung"

Circular discussion.

[dallis]

Yet again, this is attorney level stuff.

[Yasav]

I think OP overreacted, which is usually what happens with people who never been in any situations like this before.

There can never be any lawsuit unless Apple bought items from him directly via one of their undercover buyers. They need actual samples of his inventory to back up any potential claims. All that stuff about cheap price and lack of packaging is pure speculation. Legal battles are won based on facts and hardcore proof not speculation.

Plus, lack of the apple logo and the fact that OP's in Germany.

I am not a lawyer but if it were me I would ignore this "lawyer" completely. Sounds like one of those bottom-feeders; they are dime a dozen these days.

[empirestate]

Scare tactics
__________________
How to use Paypal correctly
Run multiple portable Firefox, 1 user account
How to add new PP to eBay
How to clean photos
Best image resizer

[tjacks305]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

I sold generic iPhone charging cables (bought from China) and the problem is I used "Apple" in the title of my listing. The listing got reported by Markmonitor and got pulled down eventually. All of this happend in Sep/2017.

I contacted Markmonitor and asked why they reported the listing, got the usual response and then I did a very f***ed up mistake: I asked for the information of their legal representative in Germany.

2 days ago I got called by their lawyer in Germany and he was kinda nice on the phone, explained why the listing got pulled down and asked me to send him the invoices I got from my supplier. He told me that if I am cooperative I don't have to worry about a lawsuit from Apple because he will tell Apple that I was cooperative with him and as I am in Germany, he suspects nothing would come out of this.

After our phone call we contacted each other through e-mail. This is the e-mail I got from him today:


Dear Mr. XXX,

As I told you on the phone yesterday Apple asked me to take care of this matter now. There is no need to contact MarkMonitor as it is not their decision how to now proceed. I believe I explained to you yesterday your options how to resolve this matter hopefully in an amicable way. But getting back to MarkMonitor will not change anything.

Finally, I believe I explained sufficient clear in our call yesterday and in my subsequent email that we expect as a sign of cooperation that you provide us with your suppliers' invoices. If I do not hear back from you in this respect by next Tuesday, I will advise my client to now pursue further legal actions.

Best regards




I am afraid that if I send him the invoices he would be able to build a case against me and the invoices will be the 1st step in doing that!!

I contacted a lawyer few weeks ago and asked him what to do in case I receive a "Cease and dissest letter", I asked in the form of what he would do in such a case and his reply was:

If it were me I would not pay anything upon receiving such a letter, let Apple sue for the money first. They do that very seldomly



What do you think I should do? Should I send him the invoices or should I ignore him?

Do you think this a scaring tactic to get the invoices or are the threats legit?



P.S: I sold the cables on Ebay.de as I live in Germany.

I had this similar issue with Pandora awhile back for selling charms with the title Pandora in the listing. they threatened to sue me. I never replied and nothing ever happened

[Yasav]

I sold generic iPhone charging cables (bought from China) and the problem is I used "Apple" in the title of my listing.

Just to make sure, they are differences in how you use word "Apple." For ex.

1) New Cable XYZ (fits Apple) - Brand: Unbranded

2) New Cable XYZ for Apple iPhone/etc - Brand: Unbranded

3) New Apple Cable XYZ - Brand: Apple

Correct me if I am wrong; but titles 1 and 2 shouldn't cause any issues. In my understanding, it's perfectly ok to reference another company or trademark if it's done so for fitment purposes only.

I think also you could have included a disclaimer at the end of the listing saying like

"Products carried by our store are not affiliated with nor endorsed by Apple Inc. Any trademarks mentioned are used for fitment purposes only and belong to their respective owners."

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by Yasav

Just to make sure, they are differences in how you use word "Apple." For ex.

1) New Cable XYZ (fits Apple) - Brand: Unbranded

2) New Cable XYZ for Apple iPhone/etc - Brand: Unbranded

3) New Apple Cable XYZ - Brand: Apple

Correct me if I am wrong; but titles 1 and 2 shouldn't cause any issues. In my understanding, it's perfectly ok to reference another company or trademark if it's done so for fitment purposes only.

I think also you could have included a disclaimer at the end of the listing saying like

"Products carried by our store are not affiliated with nor endorsed by Apple Inc. Any trademarks mentioned are used for fitment purposes only and belong to their respective owners."

You are absolutely correct.

2. Compatibility: Developers may use Apple, Macintosh, iMac, or any other Apple word mark (but not the Apple Logo or other Apple-owned graphic symbol/logo) in a referential phrase on packaging or promotional/advertising materials to describe that the third party product is compatible with the referenced Apple product or technology, provided they comply with the following requirements.

a. The Apple word mark is not part of the product name.

b. The Apple word mark is used in a referential phrase such as “runs on,” “for use with,” “for,” or “compatible with.”

c. The Apple word mark appears less prominent than the product name.

d. The product is in fact compatible with, or otherwise works with, the referenced Apple product.

e. The reference to Apple does not create a sense of endorsement, sponsorship, or false association with Apple or Apple products or services.

f. The use does not show Apple or its products in a false or derogatory light.

https://www.apple.com/legal/intellec...rdparties.html

One of my side businesses is using my art on phone cases, laptop skins, headphone skins, etc and I made sure to comply with the usage of the trademarks when marketing the products.

[ebaystealth1974]

Years ago, when the iphone 5 first came out and was using the new "lightning" connector, I got called down by ebay for having that word in my title. Which I thought was weird...

But whatever, I took the word out of my title, they upped my selling limits, and I made thousands of dollars for both of us. Everyone was happy!

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by Yasav

Just to make sure, they are differences in how you use word "Apple." For ex.

1) New Cable XYZ (fits Apple) - Brand: Unbranded

2) New Cable XYZ for Apple iPhone/etc - Brand: Unbranded

3) New Apple Cable XYZ - Brand: Apple

Correct me if I am wrong; but titles 1 and 2 shouldn't cause any issues. In my understanding, it's perfectly ok to reference another company or trademark if it's done so for fitment purposes only.

I think also you could have included a disclaimer at the end of the listing saying like

"Products carried by our store are not affiliated with nor endorsed by Apple Inc. Any trademarks mentioned are used for fitment purposes only and belong to their respective owners."

You're absolutely right, but here is how it goes with Markmonitor (the company that enforces Apple rights online):

If your listing contains the words "Apple" or "Lighting", your listing will be found by the web scrawler deployed by Markmonitor. Then they will take it down because the cables you're selling infringe on Apple designs. Apple does not just own the brand "Apple", it owns the designs of its products.

So hypothetically speaking, they could sue you even if you don't use the word "Apple" in your listing and even if you put that disclaimer in it.

I used to have a bookmark folder where I saved all listings of my competitors, many of them got taken down as well even though many of them followed your mentioned method.

There is a big seller that has more than one million in positive feedbacks, he has a listing for lightning cables and here is how his title reads:

"USB sync charging cable for iPhone iPad iPod"

His listing is in the top 5 results and selling over 400 sales/day. Business as usual and nobody seems to care. My point is, if you don't have a super conversion rate and use the above mentioned title, you chances of selling are slim to none!


I originally used the word "Apple" in my title because all almost all sellers were doing so and I need to match their wordings in order to appear in search results.

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

You're absolutely right, but here is how it goes with Markmonitor (the company that enforces Apple rights online):

If your listing contains the words "Apple" or "Lighting", your listing will be found by the web scrawler deployed by Markmonitor. Then they will take it down because the cables you're selling infringe on Apple designs. Apple does not just own the brand "Apple", it owns the designs of its products.

So hypothetically speaking, they could sue you even if you don't use the word "Apple" in your listing and even if you put that disclaimer in it.

I used to have a bookmark folder where I saved all listings of my competitors, many of them got taken down as well even though many of them followed your mentioned method.

There is a big seller that has more than one million in positive feedbacks, he has a listing for lightning cables and here is how his title reads:

"USB sync charging cable for iPhone iPad iPod"

His listing is in the top 5 results and selling over 400 sales/day. Business as usual and nobody seems to care. My point is, if you don't have a super conversion rate and use the above mentioned title, you chances of selling are slim to none!


I originally used the word "Apple" in my title because all almost all sellers were doing so and I need to match their wordings in order to appear in search results.

Well making replica "compatible" add-ons would go into a patent infringement/grey area. Even Nintendo, who is super friendly to third-parties, got involved in some lawsuits during the Wii era due to the replica nature of the products, even for long standing third party makers.

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by Gladiator

Well making replica "compatible" add-ons would go into a patent infringement/grey area. Even Nintendo, who is super friendly to third-parties, got involved in some lawsuits during the Wii era due to the replica nature of the products, even for long standing third party makers.

Correct, Apple would go after such thing only if they have nothing to do. I saw some vendors on Amazon that basically came up with their own brand, made packaging and just put Apple cables inside. So now they're selling replica cables under their own brand and everything is fine.

Maybe I will do that in the future

[Yasav]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

Correct, Apple would go after such thing only if they have nothing to do. I saw some vendors on Amazon that basically came up with their own brand, made packaging and just put Apple cables inside. So now they're selling replica cables under their own brand and everything is fine.

Maybe I will do that in the future

Yes I see those all the time. Foo-foos being sold under your own brand. AMZN will crack down on that, sooner or later, just a matter of time.

If they catch you again selling those cables, the likelihood of legal ramifications would be higher, they would tell "I told yo a$$ last time to not sell it"

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by Yasav

Yes I see those all the time. Foo-foos being sold under your own brand. AMZN will crack down on that, sooner or later, just a matter of time.

If they catch you again selling those cables, the likelihood of legal ramifications would be higher, they would tell "I told yo a$$ last time to not sell it"

Well I was talking about that with Amazon in mind. Listings like that have been up since 2015 with god knows how many sales they have accumulated so far!

[Yasav]

Originally Posted by walkingupwards

Well I was talking about that with Amazon in mind. Listings like that have been up since 2015 with god knows how many sales they have accumulated so far!

The thing is, some of those people may live outside the US in "justice-free" countries where they are unreachable for any type of legal action. So the law companies that are hired by the brands to shut down foo-foo sellers usually go first after those who reside and are amendable to the service of process in the US.

[oompaloompa]

How would I go about getting a seller looked at by apple? what do you need to report and to who exactly....

[Gladiator]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

How would I go about getting a seller looked at by apple? what do you need to report and to who exactly....

https://www.apple.com/legal/contact/#copyright

You can also go to the Copyright.gov and use their registered agent contacts:

https://cdn.loc.gov/copyright/online...a/appleinc.pdf

For future refs:

https://www.copyright.gov/onlinesp/list/a_agents.html

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by oompaloompa

How would I go about getting a seller looked at by apple? what do you need to report and to who exactly....

Why do you want to do such a thing in the first place? Is that your way to get rid of competition?

Leave Apple by themselves man, they know how to take care of their business.

[dallis]

Probably because we hate scumbags who sell phake stuff for real prices pretending when it's not real.

[walkingupwards]

Originally Posted by dallis

Probably because we hate scumbags who sell phake stuff for real prices pretending when it's not real.

Well, I am sure he wants to get rid of his competitor. If you don't sell in that category, why the hell should you care about notifying Apple about a potential infringement!