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Old 04-25-2015
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Default Long story made short, need urgent advice

1. buyer opens return-request for "item not as described". The item was as described. The buyer is Spanish speaking and misunderstood my listing as they were unable to read it and solely relied on picture, for which I cannot be held responsible

2. Since the buyer selected "not as described" as their reason for return, this forces me to pay return shipping. The buyer is responsible for return shipping in this case since the item was as described

3. I contacted buyer asking if they want to return item for a refund, telling them they must pay return shipping. The buyer does not respond at this point

4. The buyer leaves neutral feedback with 3 low DSRs

5. I escalated the request to eBay stating the item sent to the buyer was as described and the buyer expected a completely different item

6. eBay decides in buyers favor and forces a return

7. I contacted eBay 3 times asking why I was found at fault, all 3 agents said they completely agree with me the item was exactly as described and that they had to force a return since my return policy still allowed for a return because it was within the 14 day return time window and that they cannot reverse their decision

8. The days go by and the buyer does not communicate

9. The case is closed automatically and the buyer never returned the item.

I received a neutral feedback and a case strike "closed without seller resolution". I have until the 30th of April to send them an appeal and I need to know what are my options from here

Is there any policy covering my case?

Last edited by iasks; 04-25-2015 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 04-25-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Answer these questions please:

Age of account, including feedback?
Country of listing?

value of item being sold?
Cost of return shipping


How does this threas relate?

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Old 04-25-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Just hope Greenbean is a genius! Maybe he can help you salvage this.

I'll make apologies in advance, but there's a harsh truth here: Learn from this, it cost you money and hurt your ratings. If you don't learn you're just going to get hurt again.

Here in the US this result is inevitable, and from your story I'm guessing it's the same there.

Customer service can't know if it was or wasn't as described, if they tell you they can they're just lying to shut you up and move on to the next call.

You MUST resolve a case within the deadline or it closes without resolution and you get the 'unresolved case" ding. 3 of those and you're account is toast.

If you paid for return shipping and refunded instantly, you MIGHT have gotten out with no dings at all, so they're entirely your fault. EB's not going to remove dings you got for being stubborn.

The buyer doesn't HAVE to respond to your emails - they said it was SNAD and when it's claimed to be SNAD they don't have to pay to ship back and they don't have to negotiate.

The language issue is unfair but irrelevant.

Lying or confused, a SNAD claim means they're going to get their money back either through you or EB. If EB refunds the buyer EB will debit your account then punish you for not refunding.

If you wanted the item back you should have paid for return shipping, but you didn't, so you lost the item and the money both.

Also your 14 day return window is meaningless. EB lets buyers make returns for 45 days or more and PP allows returns for at least 6 months, and they don't give a rat's behind what you say about returns.

If you think this hasn't happened to me and I don't know how you feel, you're wrong. But to sell here you're going to have to understand what will happen in these cases, get a thick skin, learn to minimize account damage, and never sell anything you can't afford to lose.
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenBean View Post
Answer these questions please:

Age of account, including feedback?
Country of listing?

value of item being sold?
Cost of return shipping


How does this threas relate?

http://www.aspkin.com/forums/ebay-fe...y-transit.html
age of account 9 years (no stealth, I don't own any stealth acc)
listed on ebay.com , item ships from china
value of item 35$
cost to return - buyer needs to send from the states back to china, weight 1.5 pounds, maybe $20 to send back

http://www.aspkin.com/forums/ebay-fe...y-transit.html
luckily this worked, they were able to remove this feedback for me, cant thank you guys enough! (that was for a different buyer)

Last edited by iasks; 04-26-2015 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallis View Post
Just hope Greenbean is a genius! Maybe he can help you salvage this.

I'll make apologies in advance, but there's a harsh truth here: Learn from this, it cost you money and hurt your ratings. If you don't learn you're just going to get hurt again.

Here in the US this result is inevitable, and from your story I'm guessing it's the same there.

Customer service can't know if it was or wasn't as described, if they tell you they can they're just lying to shut you up and move on to the next call.

You MUST resolve a case within the deadline or it closes without resolution and you get the 'unresolved case" ding. 3 of those and you're account is toast.

If you paid for return shipping and refunded instantly, you MIGHT have gotten out with no dings at all, so they're entirely your fault. EB's not going to remove dings you got for being stubborn.

The buyer doesn't HAVE to respond to your emails - they said it was SNAD and when it's claimed to be SNAD they don't have to pay to ship back and they don't have to negotiate.

The language issue is unfair but irrelevant.

Lying or confused, a SNAD claim means they're going to get their money back either through you or EB. If EB refunds the buyer EB will debit your account then punish you for not refunding.

If you wanted the item back you should have paid for return shipping, but you didn't, so you lost the item and the money both.

Also your 14 day return window is meaningless. EB lets buyers make returns for 45 days or more and PP allows returns for at least 6 months, and they don't give a rat's behind what you say about returns.

If you think this hasn't happened to me and I don't know how you feel, you're wrong. But to sell here you're going to have to understand what will happen in these cases, get a thick skin, learn to minimize account damage, and never sell anything you can't afford to lose.
I understand what you're saying and surely agree with you this outcome is appropriate when the buyer claims the item not as described without eBay being able to verify, but my case is different

In my case, they were clearly able to verify the item was as described, prior to making the decision, by simply translating the buyer's messages sent to me in the resolution center

It's important to point out that this wasn't a not-as-described case, it was a return-request, where the buyer chose the return reason "item not as described" instead of "I no longer want item". If they chose "I no longer want item" I would simply accept their return because they would be responsible for paying return shipping. That is the correct reason for their case. They chose "not as described" which forced me to pay return shipping, so I wasn't going to accept their return and had to escalate it to eBay for them to find in my favor, or wait for it to close automatically but then that would result in an unfair defect, so the first option made more sense than the second

When the buyer opened the request, in the "notes to seller" box they stated "it's just A and I needed B too". The listing clearly stated the item only includes A, not B. eBay agreed with me completely on this in their emails. The buyer admitted they received A, and thought they would be receiving B as well. It is solely the buyer's fault in misunderstanding what is being sold.
Does it change how eBay's would rule in this case? Since the item was not SNAD and eBay could verify that by simply translating the buyer's statements made in the case

Last edited by iasks; 04-26-2015 at 06:11 AM.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by iasks View Post
age of account 9 years (no stealth, I don't own any stealth acc)
listed on ebay.com , item ships from china
value of item 35$
cost to return - buyer needs to send from the states back to china, weight 1.5 pounds, maybe $20 to send back

http://www.aspkin.com/forums/ebay-fe...y-transit.html
luckily this worked, they were able to remove this feedback for me, cant thank you guys enough!
When you sold the item, did the buyer KNOW it was coming from China?
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
When you sold the item, did the buyer KNOW it was coming from China?
They did, because the item was listed as shipping from China
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
When you sold the item, did the buyer KNOW it was coming from China?
The OP has stated that the buyer did have issues with language...



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  #9  
Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Ok. Well OP, you would have to prove that the buyer never returned the item - it's one option...would involve more contact with eb/pp...
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
Ok. Well OP, you would have to prove that the buyer never returned the item - it's one option...would involve more contact with eb/pp...
It was up to the buyer to prove they returned the item within the 7 day time frame eBay had allotted them to return. They never communicated and since they failed to upload tracking for their return through the resolution center, 7 days after eBay's ruling, the case closed automatically
It doesn't matter to eBay if the buyer returned the item afterwards because the case was already closed and eBay considers the item as not returned (the buyer never returned the item anyway)
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

I would truly appreciate your guys advice as I'm running out of time, I know my situation is special and extremely rare and I need to know which policy/policies cover me in this case so I know how to write eBay support, I have until the 28th to submit an appeal
Thank you very much for helping me out in this flie
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

I thought this would be something worth mentioning: the buyer clearly had no intention to return the item in the first place. They opened their return-request for sole purpose of requesting a full refund, without the intent to send the item back
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

You said: "Buyer selected NOT AS DESCRIBED". It's not really a 'return request'. It's a Not As Described CLAIM.

What you're not hearing is your case ISN'T special. It's NORMAL.

EB NEVER takes the SELLER'S side on a NAD issue. NEVER!

If you don't pay for the return shipping in a NAD the buyer keeps the item and gets a FULL REFUND. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME!!!

EB doesn't care if the buyer stole it.

If he did, you played right into his hands by not sending a return label. The ONLY way you had any chance to win this is if you sent the label and he didn't actually return the package.

You're not getting any advice telling you any different because this is the way the system works.

Go ahead, appeal. If you win you'll be the first one I've ever seen who does.
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallis View Post
You said: "Buyer selected NOT AS DESCRIBED". It's not really a 'return request'. It's a Not As Described CLAIM.

What you're not hearing is your case ISN'T special. It's NORMAL.

EB NEVER takes the SELLER'S side on a NAD issue. NEVER!

If you don't pay for the return shipping in a NAD the buyer keeps the item and gets a FULL REFUND. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME!!!

EB doesn't care if the buyer stole it.

If he did, you played right into his hands by not sending a return label. The ONLY way you had any chance to win this is if you sent the label and he didn't actually return the package.

You're not getting any advice telling you any different because this is the way the system works.

Go ahead, appeal. If you win you'll be the first one I've ever seen who does.
I do not understand why you are mad at me, do I know you?
You obviously have not read anything but the title
eBay are not stupid. They will not rule in favor of the buyer when they ask for something other than what they bought. The buyer buys a computer and the desk is shown in picture. The buyer opens return request stating they received the pc but not the desk. This is my case. I hope I made it clear enough where the issue is. They did not claim the PC was SNAD. They claimed the desk wasn't received
And Where did I mention eBay refunded the buyer?.... They only forced a return and the buyer then had to upload tracking without me sending return label. But the buyer never returned or uploaded return tracking, the case closed automatocally 7 days latee and I'm left with all the defects .
This is not helping at all. Don't post me back if you have nothing to add.

Last edited by iasks; 04-26-2015 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallis View Post
You said: "Buyer selected NOT AS DESCRIBED". It's not really a 'return request'. It's a Not As Described CLAIM.

What you're not hearing is your case ISN'T special. It's NORMAL.

EB NEVER takes the SELLER'S side on a NAD issue. NEVER!

If you don't pay for the return shipping in a NAD the buyer keeps the item and gets a FULL REFUND. ALWAYS. EVERY TIME!!!

EB doesn't care if the buyer stole it.

If he did, you played right into his hands by not sending a return label. The ONLY way you had any chance to win this is if you sent the label and he didn't actually return the package.

You're not getting any advice telling you any different because this is the way the system works.

Go ahead, appeal. If you win you'll be the first one I've ever seen who does.
dallis is right, and he's not "mad" at you.

He's just trying to tell you how things work on eBay, plain-and-simple.

We're not here to judge you. We're here to help.

The bottom line is this: eBay doesn't give a **** about sellers. They only care about buyers. The sooner you realize this, the better.

Should you appeal? Absolutely. Afterall, what have you got to lose?

What we're saying is this: Your odds of winning aren't great, so don't expect miracles.
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

I apologize if I come across as angry.

It appears to me that you really don't understand who and what you are dealing with.

"eBay are not stupid." That one statement pretty much says it all.

You certainly should appeal. Nobody here will be able to tell you how to win this, though, because... well, I've tried to make my point.

I truly do wish you the best of luck in all your future dealings.

Please do update us all on how this turns out.
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Old 04-27-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallis View Post
I apologize if I come across as angry.

It appears to me that you really don't understand who and what you are dealing with.

"eBay are not stupid." That one statement pretty much says it all.

You certainly should appeal. Nobody here will be able to tell you how to win this, though, because... well, I've tried to make my point.

I truly do wish you the best of luck in all your future dealings.

Please do update us all on how this turns out.
Thank you really sorry for being hostile was just upset and confused
I will definitely try to appeal but am unsure how to do it right, what do I need to tell them, like blame the buyer for not being able to read my description or tell why their decision was in error because the buyer clearly stated they were expecting something that wasn't part of the listing and insisted that I refund them without them sending the item back, or what else do I need to tell them

Last edited by iasks; 04-27-2015 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 04-27-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

Man, I just srote a great post for you and it was blocked because I used a bad word.

Here is the gist....for future reference

have the guy return it to you and YOU pay return shipping. Then just relist it under another listing, shipping from wherever you are.

Tell the guy how sorry you are and how mad you are at the company that messed you both over. Be on the buyer's side and tell him you will personall raise holy hel about it.

If you sell enough of these identical things, why not just buy a bunch and store them and then send form the US. My post from earlier today (minor tactic...) tells how I will buy from a US seller versus a Chinese one for the very reason you and your seller are suffering through......return problems, disputes and costs.

If the thing was defective then just suck it up and save your account. If he just didn't understand then just relist it and sell it. get your money back out of it and save a hit on your DSR stuff. Definitely dont argue with the customer, but get on his side agains those bad guys that tricked you and made you accidentally completely, totally, and blatantly and accidentally hurt your customer's purchase.

Whatever it takes..........live to sell another day.

Sorry...I didn't notice you are outside the US. In that case...you are screwed when it comes to my solution.

Last edited by Lost in the Supermarket; 04-27-2015 at 05:27 PM.
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  #19  
Old 04-27-2015
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Default Re: Long story made short, need urgent advice

As Lost said:

The moral of the story is this.

NEVER drop-ship from China.

Way more trouble than it's worth.
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