How I got out of Managed Payments for 2 years...and why I think PayPal will be back

[jackdanielsbtch]

Think it's safe to post about it now....

If you search managed payment's restricted items, you'll see a list. If you list those items then you can opt out of managed payments. First account was asked to do managed payments 2 years ago, I listed $5 Starbucks gift cards (not allowed at the time with MP) for $4.75 and emailed delivered them. Sold about 20 of them, called management payments, they feed you the same bs "it's required" but after talking to supervisor they send an internal request to opt out. Worked on all accounts, but the first account I opted out of today is now requiring MP.

Currently only restricted item is virtual currency, which was the only thing restricted 6 months ago when I opt-ed out my last account. On that last account I received email saying my virtual currency listing is removed because they are not allowed on MP. Called MP who said they don't opt out any more if you sell restricted items (virtual currency) ebay will just remove those listing instead of opting out.



Why I don't think MP will be required....
(1) Why eBay is doing MP? Easy, although it's profits are increasing, eBay's market share is decreasing and decreasing bad. For example, if you sell clothes 10 years ago, eBay is really your only options. Today there are tons of other websites (poshmark, grailed, etc.). Shareholders care about income, and this is eBay's way of increasing income of a shrinking market space - by increasing fees from 10% to ~13%, almost 30% increase.
(2) Why SSN and bank verification? Don't listen to eBay "law requires it". Reason is simple, Paypal doesn't require it, if you have a negative $500 balance on paypal, could give paypal the middle finger and paypal will have to eat the cost. SSN is required to ding someone's credit. Bank access is required if you owe money, you give ebay's hands permission to dip into your account to take it.

If you put (1) and (2) together, it would make logical sense for eBay to charge every seller 13% fees but not require MP and tell sellers if you want PayPal, you can use PayPal, but you'll have to pay PayPal fees too.... then again eBay isn't the most logical. Problem is the average user isn't willing to prove SSN and allow ebay's hands access into their checking account, sure business sellers "have to" if they want to keep an eBay business, but I think a lot of the smaller/average user will turn away.

[stealth1791]

interesting take on this. If you go on reddits ebay subsection, you will see tons of sellers writing they have closed their ebay accounts due to MP, and these are consistent sellers. For your average joe selling crap from around his house, no shot will they give ebay access to their banks (too many instances of ebay being breached), and the ssns.
I do see their profits falling hard, and them rethinking their use of MP. They arent etsy, if you open an etsy store your a pro seller. Ebay is the digital garage sale. So i do see a possibility of the option to use paypal coming back.

[jackdanielsbtch]

Originally Posted by stealth1791

interesting take on this. If you go on reddits ebay subsection, you will see tons of sellers writing they have closed their ebay accounts due to MP, and these are consistent sellers. For your average joe selling crap from around his house, no shot will they give ebay access to their banks (too many instances of ebay being breached), and the ssns.
I do see their profits falling hard, and them rethinking their use of MP. They arent etsy, if you open an etsy store your a pro seller. Ebay is the digital garage sale. So i do see a possibility of the option to use paypal coming back.

Maybe 20% of sellers didn't do MP, but mostly small sellers so really only affects 5% of ebay's bottom line, but MP increases ebay's fees by 30%, so overall increase in profit.

problem is down the road, small sellers won't sign up for eBay and what I sell (mostly clothes), there is good other market places (grailed, poshmark, etc).

It's like selling a junk car and putting a warranty on it, sure sells are great now, but down the road when you are repairing the cars it doesn't look great. Think the executives at ebay are just collecting stock now and will dump and leave it to the next group of executives to clean up the mess

[murdered_by_ebay]

while I doubt that paypal will be back , I do not have any doubt that ebay will get a serious growth problem after the dust settles down with MP

the reasons are not just closure of countless stealth accounts but also ruthless suspensions of new accounts , limits to which banks and currencies can be used , kicking out certain types of items , mass suspensions of existing sellers with genuine docs and more.

such a strategy will not allow ebay to have any significant growth once MP is up and running. They want to be like amazon but they can't be

[Angelina]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

such a strategy will not allow ebay to have any significant growth once MP is up and running. They want to be like amazon but they can't be

I keep seeing around people saying eb wants to be like amz.
What does it mean? In which way want to be like amz?
I don’t have amz account. How amz is similar to mp? How they check new acc?

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Angelina

I keep seeing around people saying eb wants to be like amz.
What does it mean? In which way want to be like amz?
I don’t have amz account. How amz is similar to mp? How they check new acc?

being like amazon means essentially kicking out small sellers , restricting what can be sold , who can sell what and where you can sell from.

amazon has been running this for several years and I can tell from my own experience that the selection went down and prices went up. ebay is a lot cheaper than amazon for many goods.

it works fine for amazon because they sell their own items as well and are active in many different area of business. on ebay this can only lead to stagnation and eventually loss of loads of buyers to the competition

[slokor]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

while I doubt that paypal will be back , I do not have any doubt that ebay will get a serious growth problem after the dust settles down with MP

the reasons are not just closure of countless stealth accounts but also ruthless suspensions of new accounts , limits to which banks and currencies can be used , kicking out certain types of items , mass suspensions of existing sellers with genuine docs and more.

such a strategy will not allow ebay to have any significant growth once MP is up and running. They want to be like amazon but they can't be

I agree.
New sellers (not stealth ones) signing up for ebay are encountering a request for their SSN/DOB - information they never had to provide anyone with this type of service before. It is such a violation of privacy and offers so much opportunities for harmful impact down the road that I think a great many sellers will think twice before they agree to provide such information - especially when there are so many other options out there.

[murdered_by_ebay]

the SSN issue is limited to the US , ebay have been destroying sellers from many countries though. The disturbing thing about this is not the verification but the fact that it is done by amateurs and most likely planned and ordered by amateurs as well because they do not check docs / items / business parctices but suspend at will.

this is a chicken which will come home to roost , sooner or later the additional profits from MP will become "standard" profits and after that they will get stagnation due to lack of sources for more. many of the destroyed business will never recover by the way.

[harborpoint]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

many of the destroyed business will never recover by the way.

so sad but true

[pirateblackmanboyd]

Many of the small sellers wont want to give the SS number or bank account, I have seen this on youtube where people are quitting ebay because its became a hassle. One guy said its just not fun anymore for the small seller.

[iamlmfao]

Where there is pain and sorrow, blossoms a new kind of way. eBay will never be Amazon. And that will be the final nail in the coffin when they realize copying someone else is fail. The only way to stay is to make your own ideas and way. eBay is basically copying mercari but asking for ssn and literally suspending everyone which honestly im so happy they are suspending everyone. The day I see eBay burn will probably be one of the best days of my entire peasant life.

[SaiJin]

Originally Posted by Angelina

I keep seeing around people saying eb wants to be like amz.
What does it mean? In which way want to be like amz?
I don’t have amz account. How amz is similar to mp? How they check new acc?

Amazon is a whole different animal than eBay.
They have their own CC processor but the whole game on amazon is still very different.

I don't see how eBay can be like amazon unless they gut themselves and rebuild from scratch with a DAMN good plan.

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by iamlmfao

Where there is pain and sorrow, blossoms a new kind of way. eBay will never be Amazon. And that will be the final nail in the coffin when they realize copying someone else is fail. The only way to stay is to make your own ideas and way. eBay is basically copying mercari but asking for ssn and literally suspending everyone which honestly im so happy they are suspending everyone. The day I see eBay burn will probably be one of the best days of my entire peasant life.

ebay won't burn but they will have to take a very heavy hit to their profits from fees and lose loads of buyers to amazon once the new system settles down. the main difference between amazon and ebay is that ebay need loads of third party sellers in order to maintain it's status as major flee market of the world while amazon can concentrate on own sales and on professional sellers like a major mall of world.

mall and flee market - these 2 things can co-exist. but once the flee market decides to become a second mall buyers will start migrating to the other (better) mall

[james_112233]

Interesting.

One thing for sure, good sellers should make more money with less competition.

[Hank]

Every time ebay makes changed you get a few who claim 'this is one move too far and they are doomed'.

There's been some changes which dwarf MP in respect to how business is done yet they're still here and growing.

MP will become the new norm. New sellers will see it as the norm and sign up.

I've never understood why folk are worried about positive change. If you're a good seller you should welcome anything which improves the site and buyer appeal.

...and to suggest paypal will be back is beyond ridiculous.

[rsot]

Originally Posted by pirateblackmanboyd

Many of the small sellers wont want to give the SS number or bank account, I have seen this on youtube where people are quitting ebay because its became a hassle. One guy said its just not fun anymore for the small seller.

Youtube is one way of ppl venting - to each his own

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by Hank

Every time ebay makes changed you get a few who claim 'this is one move too far and they are doomed'.

There's been some changes which dwarf MP in respect to how business is done yet they're still here and growing.

MP will become the new norm. New sellers will see it as the norm and sign up.

I've never understood why folk are worried about positive change. If you're a good seller you should welcome anything which improves the site and buyer appeal.

...and to suggest paypal will be back is beyond ridiculous.

tell that to the people who got suspended with completely legitimate accounts or who can not open a new legitimate account

[Hank]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

tell that to the people who got suspended with completely legitimate accounts or who can not open a new legitimate account

How many do you think we're talking about. A tiny tiny number I'll wager. Anyway, MP has, in the main, been widely welcomed and if a few have been suspended because of it something tells me there's a good reason.

Like I said, if you think the meltdown over MP is bad you clearly weren't a seller when, in the space of a matter of a couple of years, they made paypal compulsory, removed negative feedback for sellers, made business sellers display their details and made countless 'private' sellers convert to businesses in a 'levelling up' purge. Some we saying that ebay would be dead before the end of the decade - yet here we are getting in a flap about something as trivial as how we get paid.

Trust me, the perceived damage done by a few disgruntled stealthers over MP is almost insignificant.

Each generation of sellers has it's issues. The next generation will have theirs but MP wont be one of them.

[Steveo036940]

Originally Posted by Hank

How many do you think we're talking about. A tiny tiny number I'll wager. Anyway, MP has, in the main, been widely welcomed and if a few have been suspended because of it something tells me there's a good reason.

Like I said, if you think the meltdown over MP is bad you clearly weren't a seller when, in the space of a matter of a couple of years, they made paypal compulsory, removed negative feedback for sellers, made business sellers display their details and made countless 'private' sellers convert to businesses in a 'levelling up' purge. Some we saying that ebay would be dead before the end of the decade - yet here we are getting in a flap about something as trivial as how we get paid.

Trust me, the perceived damage done by a few disgruntled stealthers over MP is almost insignificant.

Each generation of sellers has it's issues. The next generation will have theirs but MP wont be one of them.

Completely 100% accurate...well said

[murdered_by_ebay]

well said but not corresponding to reality because loads of people with genuine docs are caught up and it is not about stealthers anymore. I know for a fact that ebay suspend most if not all new accounts of people who already have established accounts on ebay and try to open new ones with same details. this means that the suspensions take place at will and there is no investigation

[13obby]

Originally Posted by murdered_by_ebay

well said but not corresponding to reality because loads of people with genuine docs are caught up and it is not about stealthers anymore. I know for a fact that ebay suspend most if not all new accounts of people who already have established accounts on ebay and try to open new ones with same details. this means that the suspensions take place at will and there is no investigation

Totally agree I’ve had this on real accounts opening second and you get a permanent suspension for no apparent reason right of the bat.

[murdered_by_ebay]

Originally Posted by 13obby

Totally agree I’ve had this on real accounts opening second and you get a permanent suspension for no apparent reason right of the bat.

it also goes further with countless people getting some of their established long running shops shut down for "security risks" but at the same time the rest of the shops continues running.

all this means that these suspensions do not check whether person in question is already known to ebay , they also don't checks docs etc. , the suspensions take place at will. same applies to the customer support where the reps decided within 1-2 minutes whether someone can be reinstated. I will never believe they do any investigation within this time , many of them do not even speak english properly