Calling all socialists!

JamesNorth101 · #67 04-14-2016

Just out of question how would you have things like the military funded? Space exploration? Storm damage?

What happens when one person doesn't want a military? Who decides what should be paid for as choice and what should be paid for by by everyone universally?

I do have pretty conservative views myself and there are a lot of things I think should be private, but I do accept that I have to pay taxes and those taxes will go towards things I do not always agree with. I ask the above questions just to see how different people would solve pretty hard questions

GreenBean · #68 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by vogeltron

I don't follow third world politics

Pffft..... USA is bordering on third world

vogeltron · #69 04-14-2016

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Originally Posted by dealagreeproceed

haha yes ofcourse those pesky shareholders...

Well we live in a backwards world with near Zero interest rates. People are buying Bonds for appreciation and Stocks for Yield. It is insanity!!!

glacier922 · #70 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Pffft..... USA is bordering on third world

Greenbean, u should take a stroll thru downtown Oakland, CA, it is a third world! I should also take some pics, looks more and more like Detroit!

vogeltron · #71 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Pffft..... USA is bordering on third world

Haha, that is why I made the comment! No PetroDollar and the US in a third world country.

vogeltron · #72 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacier922

Greenbean, u should take a stroll thru downtown Oakland, CA, it is a third world! I should also take some pics, looks more and more like Detroit!

Oakland is bad but because it is in California with the weather it is ok. Detroit you have complete areas that are abandoned. Packs of wild dogs roaming around. Some of it will remind you of pictures and descriptions of Chernobyl today. Completely different, I live in the Bay Area my Sis lived in Piedmont. Oakland and Richmond as well have lots of crime but it isn't even as close to as crazy as Detroit. Detroit in many areas is a Third World Country.

glacier922 · #73 04-14-2016

It may not be as bad as Detroit, but it's going in that direction, just look at all the factories shut off, empty stores, if u go on shattuck ave in Berkeley, u see closed stores, I mean that's a Main Street there. Also, did u know the Bank of America building on Montgomery st, Bank of America moved out of the first floor! I mean, that prime real estate, in the most prestigious st in San Francisco is unoccupied for crying out loud! It's not Detroit, but it's going in that direction.

EWHendo · #74 04-14-2016

Maybe I've been taking the wrong tack here...

Of those of you who support conservative policies on this sort of thing:

Would you consider yourself a person who cares about other people?

dan_ebay · #75 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

Maybe I've been taking the wrong tack here...

Of those of you who support conservative policies on this sort of thing:

Would you consider yourself a person who cares about other people?

I don't care about anyone who doesn't work with 3 kids with 3 different dads on benefits

EWHendo · #76 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan_ebay

I don't care about anyone who doesn't work with 3 kids with 3 different dads on benefits

So you are okay with children suffering because they have irresponsible parents?

GreenBean · #77 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacier922

Greenbean, u should take a stroll thru downtown Oakland, CA, it is a third world! I should also take some pics, looks more and more like Detroit!

Certainly Oakland is no longer the city I enjoyed years ago.

Changes are not for the better there... Sadly it is not restricted to just Oakland.

I replied to James' post about the Military.

Luckily my connection timed out as I was not genteel.

I have a close friend who did several tours in Afghanistan. Has an honourable discharge on medical grounds. He has waited 3 years for orthodontic surgery to complete his "repairs". Some clerk at his local Vet Hospital can not fill the paper work in on his behalf...

But migrant neigbors, not yet US citizens have the most modern of homes & appear to have assistance on tap.

Grave inbalance.

JamesNorth101 · #78 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

Maybe I've been taking the wrong tack here...

Of those of you who support conservative policies on this sort of thing:

Would you consider yourself a person who cares about other people?

You can be both. Just because a person is conservative it doesn't mean that they are totally against all forms of social welfare. Some social welfare is needed IMO in every country. It's people who abuse the system and choose to rely solely on the welfare system instead of working for themselves that I personally dislike.

Even the most successful people can fall on hard times, that is just life, having a social welfare to help those people while they get back on their feet and then start becoming productive again is exactly what it's meant to do. The problem is in many countries people just rely on the social welfare without any ambition to do more with their lives

dan_ebay · #79 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

So you are okay with children suffering because they have irresponsible parents?

They wouldn't of had them if they didn't know the amount of money they'd be getting

EWHendo · #80 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan_ebay

They wouldn't of had them if they didn't know the amount of money they'd be getting

Sure... that's the thought going through my mind when me and the lady are about to get it on...

dan_ebay · #81 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

Sure... that's the thought going through my mind when me and the lady are about to get it on...

can guarantee quite a few people here have kids just for the money. A lot of others wouldn't have them if it wasn't for the money aswell either

EWHendo · #82 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostOfAmazon

Very simple. If you have no children, you don't pay taxes for schools. If your children go to private or home school you don't pay taxes for schools.

The problem with this thinking is that one is impacted by the schooling of children, even if they don't have a child of their own, or even if they do have a child who isn't in public school.

Unless you are a hermit and plan never to interact with anyone, the education of the people around you has an impact on your life.

The same goes with healthcare. You may feel like you shouldn't have to contribute to health services for anyone but yourself and your dependents. That doesn't do much good once the people who can't afford care have highly communicable diseases and interact with you in public.

We're all in the same boat here. Paying for a first class cabin doesn't separate you from the negative effects of keeping the people in steerage sick and uneducated. If the cook has a stomach bug, you're likely to get a stomach bug. If the crew doesn't know how to navigate a storm, you're still going to drown when the boat capsizes. You don't get the opportunity to pay for an isolated cabin or a single lifeboat when the **** hits the fan.

EWHendo · #83 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan_ebay

can guarantee quite a few people here have kids just for the money. A lot of others wouldn't have them if it wasn't for the money aswell either

Wow... I think that is pretty far off from how people think and from reality. I think you've seen that episode of Futurama where Bender adopts a bunch of orphans too many times. Can you cite any sources for your "guarantee?"

But say people are doing that, just for the sake of discussion; Should the people who legitimately need the help be punished because some people are taking advantage of the system?

GhostOfAmazon · #84 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

But say people are doing that, just for the sake of discussion; Should the people who legitimately need the help be punished because some people are taking advantage of the system?

Yes.

Or rather, "He who does not work, shall not eat."

It's even written in the Bible, the king of "take care of those in need."

2nd Thessalonians Chapter 3, verse 7-11

Quote:

7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, 8nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. 9We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”

11We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies

Not getting into a religious discussion here, but most people would agree to use the Bible as a general standard for morality, (the New Testament, not the Old).

But if you want to give away all your money to the needy, feel free. No one is stopping you from being charitable. But don't try to be Robin Hood. I earned what I got.

glacier922 · #85 04-14-2016

Wait wait, you used to live here???

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenBean

Certainly Oakland is no longer the city I enjoyed years ago.

Changes are not for the better there... Sadly it is not restricted to just Oakland.

I replied to James' post about the Military.

Luckily my connection timed out as I was not genteel.

I have a close friend who did several tours in Afghanistan. Has an honourable discharge on medical grounds. He has waited 3 years for orthodontic surgery to complete his "repairs". Some clerk at his local Vet Hospital can not fill the paper work in on his behalf...

But migrant neigbors, not yet US citizens have the most modern of homes & appear to have assistance on tap.

Grave inbalance.

EWHendo · #86 04-14-2016

GOA, you sound just like Scrooge to me:

"At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

Its been a while since high school English class, but I believe the point of the story is that Scrooge learns a lesson.

vogeltron · #87 04-14-2016

Many individuals believe that there are better ways to deal with things like poverty than Government. I.E. Church organizations, etc.

Government is the biggest criminal organization out there. They shake you down or you go to jail. Economic slavery so Octomom can get a free house and food and everything else.

No I don't really care about the masses.

dan_ebay · #88 04-14-2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by EWHendo

Wow... I think that is pretty far off from how people think and from reality. I think you've seen that episode of Futurama where Bender adopts a bunch of orphans too many times. Can you cite any sources for your "guarantee?"

But say people are doing that, just for the sake of discussion; Should the people who legitimately need the help be punished because some people are taking advantage of the system?

not many people admit to being scum so there aren't many sources for it unfortunately, having said that I've managed to find a couple with one google search:
Shameless mum: ??I?ll keep having kids to make more money on benefits? | News & Real Life | In the News - Closer

'Get pregnant for benefits' Outrage as shameless mum tells daughter have baby for welfare | UK | News | Daily Express

There are quite a few who just have kids for the money here. Lots more who whilst they want kids wouldn't dream of it if they actually had to pay for them themselves.
I have 2 women work for me who won't work more than 16 hours a week even though their kids are at school because they'd be 'worse off' or the same moneywise, they don't seem to understand or care that thats actually because everyone other than them is paying for their kids.
Really find it odd that I'm supposed to pay so much tax for other people to have kids they can't afford when I don't have any myself. Why don't people like you make a nice little charity for those who want to subsidize the local cum buckets and then I won't have to pay as much?