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- PayPal Talk
( https://www.aspkin.com/forums/paypal-talk/)
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 07:09 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
There was never any place for this thread to go in the first place.
I come here to have discussions about what other sellers are doing online.. and this thread has served that purpose just fine. Riding around on a high horse doesn't help anybody and is really just a waste of time. No single member is going to change what this forum is about (except maybe askpin). I don't care if there was a Bernie Madoff scale scam going on - I'd still like to hear about it because it helps me get a better understanding of ecommerce as a whole.
Good luck OP. I don't care what you did. That's between you, your partner(s), and your bank. Let us know how it turns out. |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 07:12 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaz0rz
(Post 1012546)
No.. but that's business and it sounds like this guy has a good understanding of his rights.
Maybe you should chargeback all of your purchases too.
| if he could do so,he would have done it already,but for such large purchase order,I doubt he used a credit card or paypal.
Hindsight is 20/20,OP should have asked for cash-wiretransfer is the best.
The traditional payment method for wholesale order is wiretransfer or cashier check,not credit card or paypal!!!!!!
Or if the retailer has an account with the wholesaler/manufacturer,corporate check,net 30 |
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 07:14 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012563)
if he could do so,he would have done it already,but for such large purchase order,I doubt he used a credit card or paypal.
Hindsight is 20/20,OP should have asked for cash-wiretransfer is the best.
The traditional payment method for wholesale order is wiretransfer or cashier check,not credit card or paypal!!!!!!
Or if the retailer has an account with the wholesaler/manufacturer,corporate check,net 30
| I agree it was suicidal using PP for these transactions.. but I don't know how OP was paying for their orders so I figured I would bring it up. :noidea: |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
I suggested the payment solutions to him but he would only agree to do the PayPal payment, I naively thought it should be fine as he's doing business with me for over 6 months with no problem at all Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012563)
if he could do so,he would have done it already,but for such large purchase order,I doubt he used a credit card or paypal.
Hindsight is 20/20,OP should have asked for cash-wiretransfer is the best.
The traditional payment method for wholesale order is wiretransfer or cashier check,not credit card or paypal!!!!!!
Or if the retailer has an account with the wholesaler/manufacturer,corporate check,net 30
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| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 07:31 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Many internet sellers are inexperienced or just anxious to get sales,Paypal/credit card fees eat into your margin,since wholesale orders are big $$ orders .not to mention possible chargebacks and INAD dispute.
I have read on other forums plumbers,electricians,caterers,hairdresser,photogr apher accept paypal payments and customers waste no time filing item not received once service is rendered! |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Don't you read my post? I sell 100% authentic watches to him, the only thing I am not sure is MK watches so I sent him the sample and let him decide, I am a middleman in this case, the eBay account was opened 10 years ago (5000 100% positive feedback ), never got any problem until linked PayPal banned the account for life due to the negative balance!
I would not bother post any questions here if I did it on purpose. Quote:
Originally Posted by tinsoldier
(Post 1012544)
I'll judge you if I want.
I believe you are a crook who is looking for a way to recover their gains from the sale or counterfeit goods. I also have my doubts about the legality of your banking practices amongst other things.
On this basis I am happy to suggest to this forum that they give you a wide berth.
If you don't like that then take it up with your solicitor. ( that's what we call them in the UK where you claim to live)
Good luck, you're going to need it.
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| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 07:39 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray
(Post 1012571)
I suggested the payment solutions to him but he would only agree to do the PayPal payment, I naively thought it should be fine as he's doing business with me for over 6 months with no problem at all
| the way I look at such situation is that -
if he really wants to do the deal,he would meet your terms!
Supermarkets sell money order for a low low fee to get customers into their store,some also offer Western union ,USPS sell postal orders,domestic bank wiretransfer $45,intl wire transfer $55.
Japanese and Canadian post office sell US $ postal orders,fair exchange rate ,and you can cash it free at USPS post office with proper ID,if deposited in your bank,it may charge a small fee.
Most folks can always find a supermarket,post office,bank or currency exch place within driving distance,if not,they can do it online. |
| phaz0rz | 06-20-2019 07:41 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Your buyer may have intended to chargeback you all along if they were insisting on Paypal for all payments. The person could have known this was an extremely high risk product that Paypal would happily allow them to dispute after they've had the opportunity to make tens of thousands of dollars selling the watches.
Lesson learnt there I guess. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
I got your point, I learned my lessons and thanks for the tips Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012577)
the way I look at such situation is that -
if he really wants to do the deal,he would meet your terms!
Supermarkets sell money order for a low low fee to get customers into their store,some also offer Western union ,USPS sell postal orders,domestic bank wiretransfer $45,intl wire transfer $55.
Japanese and Canadian post office sell US $ postal orders,fair exchange rate ,and you can cash it free at USPS post office with proper ID,if deposited in your bank,it may charge a small fee.
Most folks can always find a supermarket,post office,bank or currency exch place within driving distance,if not,they can do it online.
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Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Exactly, lesson learnt Quote:
Originally Posted by phaz0rz
(Post 1012578)
Your buyer may have intended to chargeback you all along if they were insisting on Paypal for all payments. The person could have known this was an extremely high risk product that Paypal would happily allow them to dispute after they've had the opportunity to make tens of thousands of dollars selling the watches.
Lesson learnt there I guess.
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| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 08:04 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
There is a similar case 1-2 years ago of a guy from USA ,he sold electronics goods to a guy in Eastern Europe,he paid using PAYPAL/AMEX card.
The guy prefers USPS first class shipping instead of USPS priority to save on shipping and avoid customs attention,the seller went along with it,shipping USPS first class with no tracking and signature confirmation
It went well for months,then he filed chargeback with AMEX.
The poor seller submitted all the shipping labels ,tracking showing it has left USA and all the correspondence between 2 parties,but nothing Paypal can do for him,AMEX ruled in buyer favor!
the amount is in 5 figures but nowhere close to $62K .
USPS intl first class.parcel select,media and priority envelope,small box have no tracking once it left USA,and none including express have signature confirmation,registered mail has signature but maynot be viewable online.
What he sold are smart phones and accessories,very saleable in Eastern Europe,the buyer made good money but Greed ,he wants to make more by paying zero for the goods . |
| nickopedia | 06-20-2019 04:56 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012587)
There is a similar case 1-2 years ago of a guy from USA ,he sold electronics goods to a guy in Eastern Europe,he paid using PAYPAL/AMEX card.
The guy prefers USPS first class shipping instead of USPS priority to save on shipping and avoid customs attention,the seller went along with it,shipping USPS first class with no tracking and signature confirmation
It went well for months,then he filed chargeback with AMEX.
The poor seller submitted all the shipping labels ,tracking showing it has left USA and all the correspondence between 2 parties,but nothing Paypal can do for him,AMEX ruled in buyer favor!
the amount is in 5 figures but nowhere close to $62K .
USPS intl first class.parcel select,media and priority envelope,small box have no tracking once it left USA,and none including express have signature confirmation,registered mail has signature but maynot be viewable online.
What he sold are smart phones and accessories,very saleable in Eastern Europe,the buyer made good money but Greed ,he wants to make more by paying zero for the goods .
| Yep, that's American Express.
AMEX by far has the most liberal rules when it comes to deciding in favor of the consumer on charge backs, even without proof. They are their own bank and make the rules, and it's possible to charge back well past the 540 days for an INR or NAD case as with Visa/MC. I've even seen cases where the charge back occurred YEARS later for an AMEX customer. |
| agent006140 | 06-20-2019 08:54 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
But the seller should have known better,buyer is claiming he did not receive the goods.
If he has shipped with tracking ,he would win the dispute.
And he did not take out any insurance either. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickopedia
(Post 1012703)
Yep, that's American Express.
AMEX by far has the most liberal rules when it comes to deciding in favor of the consumer on charge backs, even without proof. They are their own bank and make the rules, and it's possible to charge back well past the 540 days for an INR or NAD case as with Visa/MC. I've even seen cases where the charge back occurred YEARS later for an AMEX customer.
| Sad but true - another reason why many shops (at least up here) don't take Amex besides % fees, etc |
| james_112233 | 06-21-2019 01:34 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
AMEX usually have annual membership fees as well unlike many Visa/MC cards. I guess the protection AMEX offer to consumers is worth every penny then. |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 07:32 AM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
You also get better customer service,those online live chat guys/gals know Paypal/Ebay/AMZn well.
First year membership is free.
Years ago,when AMEX learns a certain merchant is not accepting AMEX,it will ask for its phone number so it can call him,probably offer him a good deal to accept AMEX card,dont know how it is done now. |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
if paypal were to put a 62k balance on your credit report you can always challenge them in court for it and bring your evidence.......
paypal might back down before you head to court and just let it go.
if you sold authentic watches, then you should have all the necessary invoices to prove its authenticity to the judge.
The judge will just waive the judgement and take any negative marks from paypal off your credit report.
represent your case to a judge in court against paypal
if the buyer stole from you, contact the fbi, 62k is not a small sum. fbi will prosecute the buyer big time.
bring all invoices proving authenticity, and fbi police report with you to court..............paypal will be more sympathetic as the day goes along in court.... |
| nickopedia | 06-21-2019 01:05 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
H4ck is correct. If you are truly the victim of fraud, you have options.
You can start by filing a police report both in your local jurisdiction, as well as where the buyer is located. Have you already done this? If not, why?
Since you say you are in the UK, You can also complete an affidavit of fraud, which you can get for a low cost from a solicitor or Trading Standards. Brits usually take this type of thing a bit more seriously than in the USA. it doesn't take a lot of effort to find out what you need to do online and present PayPal with your evidence.
On the other hand, if you are really selling counterfeit watches, knowingly or not, you have other problems to contend with. That could be why you have not involved the authorities as of yet? |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 02:53 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
OP is in UK,the paypal account he used belonged to someone in USA,he bought these watches from someone in Canada and the buyer who filed $62k chargeback is in USA.
This buy bought 500 Michael Kors watches from him and resell them to others,these others sold them on WMT site and get many returns.
So OP is not getting the chargeback as it aint his Paypal account and he is not going to get a bad rep with his UK credit rating.
It depends on how Paypal deals with such situation,would it go after both OP and the Paypal account holder?
of course Paypal has more resources,but how far does it want to get involved in this case ,would exposing all these players help it Not to eat that $62k? |
| nickopedia | 06-21-2019 03:02 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140
(Post 1012943)
OP is in UK,the paypal account he used belonged to someone in USA,he bought these watches from someone in Canada and the buyer who filed $62k chargeback is in USA.
This buy bought 500 Michael Kors watches from him and resell them to others,these others sold them on WMT site and get many returns.
So OP is not getting the chargeback as it aint his Paypal account and he is not going to get a bad rep with his UK credit rating.
It depends on how Paypal deals with such situation,would it go after both OP and the Paypal account holder?
of course Paypal has more resources,but how far does it want to get involved in this case ,would exposing all these players help it Not to eat that $62k?
| You bring up some valid points. I agree, as many other posters here do that the OP's situation sounds fishy as sardines.
That said, we don't have the actual truth. If we give the OP the benefit of the doubt and say his watches were 100% authentic pieces, then it would seem logical to involve the authorities given the amount of money involved, wouldn't it?
Can the OP give any reason why he didn't contact The Met, National Crime Agency, Trading Standards, or his local Ombudsman? as of yet?
If this happened to me, I would be reporting it formally to just about every agency I could think of, as well as involving an attorney, or solicitor as they are called in Britain. This not only adds credibility to your claim, but may protect you from PayPal's threats at the same time. |
| agent006140 | 06-21-2019 03:13 PM |
Re: I owe PayPal $62,000 because of a scammer, please help!
Quote:
Originally Posted by H4ck
(Post 1012844)
if paypal were to put a 62k balance on your credit report you can always challenge them in court for it and bring your evidence.......
paypal might back down before you head to court and just let it go.
if you sold authentic watches, then you should have all the necessary invoices to prove its authenticity to the judge.
The judge will just waive the judgement and take any negative marks from paypal off your credit report.
represent your case to a judge in court against paypal
if the buyer stole from you, contact the fbi, 62k is not a small sum. fbi will prosecute the buyer big time.
bring all invoices proving authenticity, and fbi police report with you to court..............paypal will be more sympathetic as the day goes along in court....
| can and will Paypal ding his credit when it is not his Paypal account which is getting a chargeback?it should ding his friend's credit.
also there is no Paypal seller protection for item not as described,buyer cc issuer is the one who should be convinced these are not counterfeit watches,not Paypal .
The only way to prove these Michael Kors watches are not counterfeit is to expose the seller in Canada,where did he get these 500 watches?
It should not be too difficult to find out,Michael Kors would be able to trace where they come from? |
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