Amazon is making me crazy!!!

[strull1981]

I opened a few stealth amazon account from my laptop, through changing mac address and using different user accounts on the computer and 2 weeks into selling i got the following message

Hello from Amazon.com.

This message is to inform you that we have blocked your selling account. Your open listings have been cancelled and you are no longer able to sell on our site.

We took this action because it has come to our attention that you have attempted to bypass our seller review process by opening new accounts.

Please note that per our Participation Agreement, Amazon reserves the right to close accounts as we deem appropriate.

If you still have items to ship, please take appropriate steps to resolve your pending sales. Your Seller Account will remain accessible and you are encouraged to refund or ship pending orders.

Your funds are being reserved in your Amazon.com account for 90 days from the date your account was blocked. After 90 days, the funds will be disbursed minus any A-to-Z Guarantee claims or charge-backs. If you have further questions about your funds please write to payments-funds@amazon.com.

While we appreciate your interest, the closure of your account is a permanent action. Any subsequent accounts that are opened will be closed as well. Thank you for your understanding with our decision.


Regards,

Seller Performance Team
Amazon.com
Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more


Has anybody ever received the notice like this?

[bluemoon999]

What kind of Internet connection and hardware do you have? More detail on this ...

[LindaC]

I think that it's more than web bugs and flash. I suggest that you buy a cheap/affordable new computer if you can, before you sneak back on there.

[strull1981]

i have wireless connection via dlink. and im not sure what do you mean about hardware... :(

[dennisjaneway]

Hello,

i received the same message today, before 3 of my orders where on pending.

I use 5 VMWare Virtual PCs and change the MAC and IP every time i logged in a Amazon.com Account.

I have another account which is today not blocked, but has also 2 pending orders......So i dont know if this account will be blocked at next.

Greets

Dennis

[ebaykilla]

You guys must have linked them somehow...I am running 2 amazon accounts right now for 2 months...i use my cell phone to connect to the internet via bluetooth and get a new ip each time with separate pc user id's...works like a charm! (I didn't even bother changing my MAC address)

It occurs to me that I should mention that I have no idea how this applies to people who connect using their cell phone through a USB/BLUETOOTH setup or a few other possible methods. I can only confirm the info as applies to ethernet connections and/or 802.xx devices. You know, wireless B/G/N. DSL and Cable with or without a router. I did NOT evaluate any USB connected or bluetooth to bluetooth. I didn't even check it with cable or dsl plugged in via USB. I can't really say that qualifies as a network connection, although the end result is still communication via the web. Kinda the same principle that says riding a bike will get you where you are going, but really you can't call riding driving and a bike a car. You can ride a bike as fast as you can make it go, all the way across town and won't get a speeding ticket. Not true by car. So, maybe bluetooth and USB are safe (?). Probably not.

[strull1981]

Originally Posted by ebaykilla

You guys must have linked them somehow...I am running 2 amazon accounts right now for 2 months...i use my cell phone to connect to the internet via bluetooth and get a new ip each time with separate pc user id's...works like a charm! (I didn't even bother changing my MAC address)

on the 2 mazon accounts that you are running do you sell the same products or different.... i have opened about 30 accounts in the past year and i have experimented alot. my accounts are good untill i put the same items on them and then they get closed down. i agree with you on the difference of the items. i just got 3 account closed last week within 12 hours and i had 6 more opened from the same computer after i changed the items and started runing 2 more accounts they are fine. i alwayes change mac address and use different windows login. i beleive is the products that gets us linked.

[shoot2kill]

As I read the post about people getting ready to jump of a cliff because they can not get back on amazon and humor myself from the bickering between vicvelcro and ebaykilla. In both ways Vic and killa are correct. I think you can run several AMAZON accounts with different user accounts and you don't have to remove your nic card for another. I come to this assumption by remembering that the internet revolve around a network, global network. So if you are using several user accounts to run amazon accounts then you'll get your accounts canned because of your network with the wireless router. Also to anyone with VPCs yes all the VPCs are on the same network even if you change the MAC address.

Now I will read some more and get back with you guys.

When using separate windows user accounts, the hardware MAC address of an ethernet or USB 802.xx device does not change. So changing windows user without switching adapter is still going to get you busted.

I don't know how I could possibly be more clear. Maybe some people here don't quite understand that there is more than one MAC address involved with a connection from PC to Internet? There are several MACs that make up a chain that leads from CPU to WWW.

You could buy a handful of wireless devices at $20+ each, or you can get a crapload of pci ethernet cards for less than $5 each.

[shoot2kill]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

When using separate windows user accounts, the hardware MAC address of an ethernet or USB 802.xx device does not change. So changing windows user without switching adapter is still going to get you busted.

I don't know how I could possibly be more clear. Maybe some people here don't quite understand that there is more than one MAC address involved with a connection from PC to Internet? There are several MACs that make up a chain that leads from CPU to WWW.

You could buy a handful of wireless devices at $20+ each, or you can get a crapload of pci ethernet cards for less than $5 each.

Yes you are correct but I was referring about connecting to the internet through the USB ports or tethering.I dont know if Amazon do put a cookie somewhere on the HDD so I could be wrong about that. As another tried VPCs and failed because the VPCs are connected to the Network that the host has created.

I am testing connections from the USB but do you know how what how the modems are connected to the internet via USB?

I have several modded modems and was thinking of an idea!

Well, modems that have USB sockets on them do require a driver, the same as any other USB device does. Aside from the fact that most USB devices are plug-n-play, modems are not. I do know that a person could plug the ethernet from the modem to one PC and the USB from the modem to another PC and thus use one modem on two computers. I never bothered to determine the hardware specifics of a USB connected cable modem.

We could tag-team that. I suggest we take it to another thread or coordinate via email. This thread would be the wrong place to post, until we have some final analysis to convey.

PM me if you want to give it a go.

[ebaykilla]

What is your problem man? I am here to get people back on amazon like I am ....You are NOT selling on amazon per your admission. I AM! I suggest that you stop talking until you are successful. I am successful with many different methods in getting back on amazon. All of these methods that you are suggesting will only complicate a matter that is more simple than you are explaining. If you are a paranoid person...by all means change all of this hardware..I am telling that it is POINTLESS. I have been linked using a brand new computer in the past due to listing a similar combo of items while living in the same area. The new hardware theory is all hogwash based on my experience. GET BACK ON AMAZON AND BE SUCCESSFUL BEFORE SUGGESTING ANYTHING!

I said I was back on. I'm just not saying any more .

Your method was useless UNTIL the additional factor of NIC MAC was established and accounted for. I didn't damage your method, you did. I added to it and planted a flower on top. Now the pile of fertilizer you presented to everyone is useful. I only added on and improved what was useless by itself.

I have no idea what you mean when you refer to all the hardware. One network adapter priced at $5 isn't that expensive for us and one device does not constitute a multitude of items.

My problem is that you seem to be misleading and not too fluent in www. You are well aware of your error, yet you continue to solicit victims. Yep, that's my problem.

I wouldn't mind at all - if you were simply mistaken. But the truth is - you are deliberately mistaken.

So, tell me how you are being helpful? Explain this in detail to me and to the others here who now know about the value of your info, having learned the hard way.

I'm pretty sure that people who may still think you have good intentions will wake up when I clearly point out that there is only one logical explanation for YOU TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO BE CAREFUL and denying a fact that several have confirmed.

[SimplyComplex]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

Well, modems that have USB sockets on them do require a driver, the same as any other USB device does. Aside from the fact that most USB devices are plug-n-play, modems are not. I do know that a person could plug the ethernet from the modem to one PC and the USB from the modem to another PC and thus use one modem on two computers.

I've tried this on three different computers and it never worked.
You always have to unplug one and reset the modem.

I do have a question for you though.

How is it that they're polling the network card's MAC and not the modem's MAC?

I did a Google search and I was a bit surprised to see some people claim that a MAC address can be obtained with only Javascript.

Unfortunately, no one distinguished between network MAC and modem MAC.

And according to Sun this isn't even possible.

Up until your post about checking the packets, I honestly thought everyone blaming the MAC address were wrong. I'd never before seen this type of code. I remember years ago trying to obtain a simple ip address from Javascript and it wasn't possible.
I guess the standard has evolved quite a bit in the last few years.
According to posts hereIt's possible to get MAC from javascript, only when using ActiveX.

YET
It looks like you can on Internet Explorer

I just have flatly no idea what to think.

Have you tested packets while having Java disabled?

[shoot2kill]

Originally Posted by SimplyComplex

I've tried this on three different computers and it never worked.
You always have to unplug one and reset the modem.

I do have a question for you though.

How is it that they're polling the network card's MAC and not the modem's MAC?

I did a Google search and I was a bit surprised to see some people claim that a MAC address can be obtained with only Javascript.

Unfortunately, no one distinguished between network MAC and modem MAC.

And according to Sun this isn't even possible.

Up until your post about checking the packets, I honestly thought everyone blaming the MAC address were wrong. I'd never before seen this type of code. I remember years ago trying to obtain a simple ip address from Javascript and it wasn't possible.
I guess the standard has evolved quite a bit in the last few years.
According to posts hereIt's possible to get MAC from javascript, only when using ActiveX.

YET
It looks like you can on Internet Explorer

I just have flatly no idea what to think.

Have you tested packets while having Java disabled?

Have you tried used different modems also? I don't know as much as you and Vic do about the internet, but I thought using a different modem for each computer could work or swap modems for each account!

[ebaykilla]

I am not misleading people. I want people to get back on but I am not making a step by step process on here for amazon to change their ways to counter it. They already have an effective process for linking banned accounts and I am not trying to put all of my methods in one posting. I always tell people to read all of my threads and take notes. Much like aspkin and his Stealth Book, I am also constantly tinkering with the method to improve it. I am 100% positive that hardware has nothing to do with banning. Anyone following that method is destined to fail. I have been running multiple accounts at the same time on the same computer and if one gets banned, the others do not. If it was the hardware then all of them should fall like dominoes...but they do not. The items that you list has more to do with it than anything.

It may only be possible on some brands and even specific models. I've only done it with a few modems as proof of concept. Personally, I use as many modems as I need and I connect them via ethernet through a router. I change MAC as freely as I like. Dual-connecting eth/usb is not particularly useful to me.

Perhaps your modem is incompatible or you aren't using the proper proceedure. There are video tutorials on YouTube that clearly demonstrate how to do it for a few different modems.

Originally Posted by SimplyComplex

I've tried this on three different computers and it never worked.
You always have to unplug one and reset the modem.

I can't say how they were doing it. I wasn't worried about 'how'. I was more interested in the bottom line. Was it happening? The answer was 'yes'. Knowing how would have been useless to me. Since I would have no way to modify their end in a way that would prevent it. 'How' is irrelevant and would have been a waste of my time. All I needed to know was 'if'. My solution was fast and simple. Take the NIC out of the PCI slot. Put a new one in. Spoofing the NIC MAC didn't work. The factory MAC was still being pulled even after the spoof. NIC spoofing is nothing more than a registry entry. Anything that polls the NIC MAC without asking the registry would get the real MAC, avoiding the spoofed info. (definition of two terms: poll=to request data / pull=to get the data requested)

To be clear: They were getting the modem MAC too. Apparently they weren't implementing anything related to the modem MAC, though.

Whatever they were doing to get the MACs, it was getting EVERY MAC in the machine. Even though I wasn't connected from both modems and my 2 wireless adapters, it was getting all of the MACs. Which is why I didn't suggest people install 2 NICs and just switch back and forth. Install one, use it, remove it, install the other, use it, remove it, install the original one, lather rinse repeat.

I do have a question for you though.

How is it that they're polling the network card's MAC and not the modem's MAC?

I'm not especially fluent in java. It can be done. A friend of mine used to spoof the pages of popular websites back in the early '90s, with the intent of harvesting personal data. He used java somehow and was successful. He's very wealthy and no longer resides in the United States or uses the name his mom and dad gave him when he was born, therefore I can't ask him. I can say that I doubt he was using java to communicate directly to the remote NIC. My suspicion is that he was simply doing some sort of BIOS call through the operating system.

I did a Google search and I was a bit surprised to see some people claim that a MAC address can be obtained with only Javascript.

According to me, I wouldn't take the word of any company that claims .anything. is impossible. They used to say lasers could not generate a 3D hologram in mid-air. I and a friend of mine did it back in 1988. They said the Titanic was unsinkable...

Unfortunately, no one distinguished between network MAC and modem MAC.

And according to Sun this isn't even possible.

Obtaining IP using javascript is not impossible or even difficult.

Up until your post about checking the packets, I honestly thought everyone blaming the MAC address were wrong. I'd never before seen this type of code. I remember years ago trying to obtain a simple ip address from Javascript and it wasn't possible.

I wouldn't know about this. I am clueless about ActiveX. I doubt that it is true, though. It sounds like deliberate misinformation or something said by somebody who is only fluent in ActiveX.

I guess the standard has evolved quite a bit in the last few years.
According to posts hereIt's possible to get MAC from javascript, only when using ActiveX.

IE will give info just as freely as it retrieves info.

YET
It looks like you can on Internet Explorer

I just have flatly no idea what to think.

I never had java enabled. I only tested with java disabled on the client - and - the computer I used for monitoring did not even support java. I wasn't viewing page-source. I used a second computer to monitor all the inbound and outbound packet traffic between the first computer and the website. I sniffed the packets using an application that has nothing at all to do with java.

Have you tested packets while having Java disabled?[/QUOTE]



My bottom line on the whole thing is that I only wanted to determine a fact and establish a definite solution. I was not trying to study every element of how they make it happen.

I love analogies, so here's another: We don't need to know the formula for the alloy they use to make coins or the machine used to stamp them out. All we need to know is that coins exist and then acquire some - then we can spend them. Let others do all the silly over-thinking.

I never said it was *THE* method. I said it *IS* one factor they use. I made it clear that people need to accomodate all other issues IN ADDITION to this ONE that people did not suspect.


I never shot your infos down. I said you were missing something, and I said what exactly THAT was. You try very hard to steer people away from this. .

I think you only volunteer info others have had for a long time. Makes you look like one of us.

I could understand not posting certain things publicly. But this one is so plain, so cut and dry... They can't stop people from spending $5 on a NIC card. They can't do anything about it. It doesn't appear that they have any more tricks up their sleeves ready to bring into play.
They don't want us changing our NIC MAC and neither does ebaykilla.

Because when we implement all the other things we already know and do, this is the last thing they can use. We eliminate this, and they can only profile based on listing and sales behaviour. All quantifiable statistics being taken from them, they know they'll be pissing lots of innocent people off, when their profiling measures finger blameless sellers.

You use 11 screws to hold up the screen door. I use 12. You're saying 12 screws will make the door fall off but 11 is perfect?

Originally Posted by ebaykilla

I am not misleading people. I want people to get back on but I am not making a step by step process on here for amazon to change their ways to counter it. They already have an effective process for linking banned accounts and I am not trying to put all of my methods in one posting. I always tell people to read all of my threads and take notes. Much like aspkin and his Stealth Book, I am also constantly tinkering with the method to improve it. I am 100% positive that hardware has nothing to do with banning. Anyone following that method is destined to fail. I have been running multiple accounts at the same time on the same computer and if one gets banned, the others do not. If it was the hardware then all of them should fall like dominoes...but they do not. The items that you list has more to do with it than anything.

[SimplyComplex]

Originally Posted by vicvelcro

To be clear: They were getting the modem MAC too. Apparently they weren't implementing anything related to the modem MAC, though.

That makes more sense, thanks for clearing that up for me, I misunderstood

Obtaining IP using javascript is not impossible or even difficult.

I meant actual ip. Not displayed ip. IE I'm in Kansas, but my tor onion is in France, I obtain the Kansas ip with it.
I never found a way to do that, and I looked for a while.

I never had java enabled. I only tested with java disabled on the client - and - the computer I used for monitoring did not even support java. I wasn't viewing page-source. I used a second computer to monitor all the inbound and outbound packet traffic between the first computer and the website. I sniffed the packets using an application that has nothing at all to do with java.

This leaves me wondering if they aren't using browser exploits.
Not just for IE, but possibly the other ones.
I get how you could probably do this with a windows native Java app, but javascript of VBScript just seem too limited as they're designed to function.

Let others do all the silly over-thinking.

I'm sometimes prone to that

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[ebaykilla]

LOL...i get it now...Vic thinks I work for ebay or amazon and I am a spy...LMAO!!! OK dude...It is clear you are a person who fears conspiracies....Hey guys change your NIC card..etc etc..But I will tell you that if you go back selling the same items (especially if your stock is over 10 items) you can change your COMPUTER and still get banned! I have done it so I know it is possible. Think of amazon like the lottery...what are the chances of a seller listing 15 of the same items that a banned seller did? I think it is more than one in a million...are there a million sellers on amazon? I think not....If the nic card is an issue then ALL OF MY ACCOUNTS SHOULD GO DOWN AT THE SAME TIME BUT THEY DO NOT, SOME NEVER GO DOWN....I rest my case...think about it....Reduce the probability and you will see success....I only get linked once I get too close towards looking like the banned id. So now I use many ids now to split them up and reduce linking...good luck!

[SimplyComplex]

Originally Posted by ebaykilla

But I will tell you that if you go back selling the same items (especially if your stock is over 10 items) you can change your COMPUTER and still get banned!

He never disagreed that selling the same items will get you banned.
He just said there was yet another concern to be mindful of.