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  #1  
Old 09-04-2010
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Default Stumbled onto a way PayPal may be linking via card

I have been making regular purchases off a website. Used a few different cards. Anyway, I was over charged a bit so I contacted them

They sent me back the PayPal confirmation email they got. Thing is I did not use PayPal. It was a very simple credit card checkout. Just card and exp, etc. Zero sign of PayPal anywhere. They are using Paypal as a credit card processing gateway they said when I asked. But there is no sign anywhere its paypal. I dont even leave their site... I know what PayPal merchant checkout looks like. It still has PayPal everywhere. This is something different.

And on that PayPal confirmation email I was forwarded was:

My Full Real Name
Card info
Full Address

This means that every card I used on this site is now dead forever for PayPal. One of the cards was a card I used to setup a paypal account awhile back. That account was limited out of the blue for what appeared to be no reason. It was just sitting there. Now I know why. PayPal got that number and my real info when I used it on the site. Another card I used on this site was rejected by PayPal when trying to setup a stealth account. Now I know why.

So, best to be careful what cards you use and where when its tied to a paypal. I was going to use one of the cards I used on this site on an existing PayPal. That would have been bad. And I've used a few cards on this site. So now they are all poison too :(

So anyway, heads up. PayPal may be getting info from a card and you dont even know it....
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I use a separate prepaid credit card with its sole use to make all my purchases for all my supplies. Even if the checkout is through paypal, they can't get any information of me personally. I was afraid this could happen, hence the reason I have it. When ever I've used it through the paypal checkout, I always get asked to "save time and register with paypal" don't fall for it. Get yourself a prepaid reloadable card and only buy your supplies with this card.
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Old 09-04-2010
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This had nothing to do with paypal or business, just personal shopping. There was zero paypal anywhere. None of the pay without an account, etc. This was their pro merchant setup where you don't leave website and go to paypal at all. Just card number, exp, and pin. Nothing else.

Used them for months and the only way I even knew it was paypal was merchant forwarded me their confirmation email.

Point is any site can be using paypal and you wouldn't know it. So using a card thats on PayPal off paypal can be dangerous if not careful
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Old 09-04-2010
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I never thought of this, but YES, PayPal offers merchant accounts as well, and those do NOT have to say "PayPal" anywhere on the merchant's website.

GOOD FIND!

Sucks that it might cost you some accounts, though...
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Old 09-04-2010
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Ya, 100% off the radar. Never leave the shopping cart at all.

Lost some cards and one account. BUT knowing this will help be less hap hazard with cards. I've burned off the balance of VCCs used to setup a paypal account lots without giving it a second thought. Need to be careful. Best to try and use the balance in that PayPal itself and be done with it.... They have a longer reach then we tend to think of....
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Old 09-07-2010
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Nice post to point out pod - this crap actually happened to me few months ago - completely slipped my mind but very good you brought it up.

Point is you also should have one card with fairly big spending limits if you are going to be buying off the Net that has no paypal account registered to it.
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Old 09-16-2010
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very very good post, occasionally I have used bank cards, or leftovers from vcc or vouchers that are registered on paypal to buy stuff occasionally eg, 3v vouchers........and I never thought of this, you would think you would see paypal logo somewhere and be like arrgghhh......scary..maybe it is in the small print somewhere

so use dedicated card just for online purchases in future....
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Old 09-16-2010
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Allow me to Plant some Seeds,,,,Get a VCC,,,,Make a Purchase on Such a Site,,,,Then Create a Verified Paypal account,,,,,Hmmmm
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompaloompa View Post
you would think you would see paypal logo somewhere and be like arrgghhh.......
Thats the kicker. Its embedded right into shopping cart and plays out on site like a normal credit card processor. Card charge on statement also makes no mention of PayPal at all. I've made a dozen purchases off the site and had no idea....

I have a paypal module [Business verified] on one of my sites and you get a credit card checkout screen. But on a PayPal page. And it shows its PayPal clear as day. You dont use PayPal, just credit card, but it still shows PayPal all over

This is their Website Payments Pro. Its a full on merchant account that stays on merchant site and makes zero mention merchant is using PayPal. In fact merchant does not take PayPal....

But sure enough, PayPal gets all the info

Not sure why someone would opt for a PayPal merchant account to be honest. May as well get a real one that has more respect for your business. But since its not posted to buyer as a PayPal transaction you cant log in and click "claim" either. Maybe they treat merchant better, but I doubt it.

From now on I will have cards that are paypal exclusive. A pain, but its the only safe way
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapped View Post
Allow me to Plant some Seeds,,,,Get a VCC,,,,Make a Purchase on Such a Site,,,,Then Create a Verified Paypal account,,,,,Hmmmm
Dont follow. You mean use the VCC with the info on site you plan to use on paypal, then use same info on PayPal? to create an account? Thought process is it may start a bit stronger?
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Don't think it would be stronger Slapped - I have tried that in the past and account still gets randomly limited - even with purchase.
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Old 09-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pod View Post
Dont follow. You mean use the VCC with the info on site you plan to use on paypal, then use same info on PayPal? to create an account? Thought process is it may start a bit stronger?

No,,,Use a VCC to buy something on a site like one your are Describing,,,,Then Sometime AFTER Use the SAME VCC and Info used on the Purchase to Create and Verify a Stealth Paypal Account,,,,

The Idea Being,,,Paypal may ALREADY Have that VCC and Info,,Because of the Prior Purchase,,,Im Wondering if it Might make the stealth paypal Account a Bit more "Trustworthy" Since the Information has Already been Collected (If indeed They do Collect it) from another "Independant" Source,,,,
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Old 09-16-2010
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Thats what I thought you were saying. I have no doubt they keep the number in the system. But would they consider it of any value "trust" wise is debatable. A VCC is still the weakest form of credit card as you can put any info you want on it. They know that as well as we do naturally.
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Old 09-16-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pod View Post
Thats what I thought you were saying. I have no doubt they keep the number in the system. But would they consider it of any value "trust" wise is debatable. A VCC is still the weakest form of credit card as you can put any info you want on it. They know that as well as we do naturally.

Im Not so sure about that,,,I Believe that there Legalities involved With that Issue,,,

At any rate it is something that Surely cannot Hurt you if you try it,,,
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Old 09-16-2010
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Ya, I was thinking about that. Not sure what info they are legally allowed to hang onto. But when you go through the checkout on a normal paypal plugin even when you select "pay without paypal" they keep that info. Name and email anyway. They tend to bend the rules a lot

They could justify keeping the info for security or some nonsense. A merchant cant keep the info. But gateway can maybe?
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Old 09-17-2010
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Gateway keeps the info for security purposes - IP log, chargeback, etc. - merchant does not have access to the information.

Paypal here is the gateway so yes your info is collected.
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Old 09-17-2010
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Very good information, thanks for the heads up. In fact it explains something that happened to me just a couple of days ago. I went through checkout on a site and it's payment gateway was PayPal. I'd never used the card on PayPal before and wasn't going to for any stealth accounts, so thought fine. Then I got the message that you can't use this card as it's already been used on another PayPal account. This has got to be what had happened.
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Old 09-17-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsam View Post
can't use this card as it's already been used on another PayPal account
Exactly. Somewhere down the line you used card on a site that used paypal merchant account and you didn't know. They kept card info and whatever else they felt was important.

Like I said, they reach out further then we know. Fortunately I have to assume they cant have a huge percentage of pro merchant accounts out there. I mean why would anyone use them with all their crap. But maybe they are normal to deal with on that level. Who knows. They may make you do all the security stuff up front [like they should] and as long as you aren't getting too many chargebacks they actually just let you carry on with business unmolested....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsot View Post
Gateway keeps the info for security purposes - IP log, chargeback, etc. - merchant does not have access to the information.

Paypal here is the gateway so yes your info is collected.
You Know I was thinking about this today (How Sad is that),,,And Honestly,,,Even as a Gateway Paypal May Not be Allowed to Keep this Info By law,,,as a Gateway they may Collect it, or be Required to collect it in order to Pass it Along to masterCard, Visa, or Who ever Issues the Card,,they are actually the Ones who would need the Info in the Event of a chargeback,,,No?
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Old 09-17-2010
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I was thinking about this as well. I think they are allowed to keep it all. Its what they do. Visa and Mastercard have arrangements with them. I'm sure there are a million privacy protocols in place, but they have all the info and keep it. They do on your account so why not when they process a payment
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Old 09-17-2010
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I can tell you they can and they do keep all of the logged information, most likely indefinitely. I've seen it, experienced it, dealt with the laws, regulations, policies, surrounding it. They are required by law to keep it for at least 6 years, these are known as Data Retention Laws.
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Old 09-18-2010
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by law they are definately not allowed to keep info unless you tick a yes box that they can.....but whether they do or not is another matter
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