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  #1  
Old 10-25-2019
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Default Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

I hadn't had a dispute on paypal in a long time and I don't remember much about them.
Basically I sold a digital item on ebay. Delivered and did my part correctly. The item had a 14 days return policy.
21 days later all of a sudden the client demanded a return without really giving a reason. I was open to discussion or help and even considering accepting, but she immediately left false negative feedback and was so rude and demanding that made me want to fight back.
I won the return case she opened on eBay. Now I just saw she has opened an "item not as described" dispute on Paypal.
Options that I have on the dispute:
-I'll issue a full refund. The buyer can keep the item(s)
-I'll issue a full refund. The buyer must return the item(s)
-I'll issue a partial refund.
-I've already issued a refund
-I disagree with the claim. I'd like to submit additional info


I have two questions:
- Is there a chance of winning this, if yes what option should I choose?
- Does losing this risk permanent limitation of my Paypal or a review?
(1.5 year old account, never had a paypal dispute, sold quite a few risky items like digital items)


I searched the forum but couldn't find much on this topic. Any help appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Give it a shot, mention the fact that ebay closed the case on her.
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Old 10-25-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

dont waste your time,Paypal bot will side with her,she will have to return the item with tracking before you refund.
How is she going to get tracking on digital,if she sends an empty envelope,it would be at least $2.76 domestic /
if she goes to her cc issuer ,if she used a cc,then you pay $20 fine plus paymnt
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Old 10-26-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ch3shirecat View Post
.... but she immediately left false negative feedback and was so rude and demanding that made me want to fight back......


Oh man, have I been there. One of the first real lessons I learned from the forum here that wasn't in the stealth guide was from a post someone made about the value of cutting losses.

I don't know how much the value of the item was, but over the years I've let (a lot) of stuff just "go" to avoid return shipping (and the cost of a real return address or PO Box) and the cost/time of risking a smooth working account, or to avoid a feedback that might do more harm over the long term.

I realize that you can't just let everything go when there's a dispute, but just keep in mind that there is definitely a dollar value to having a dispute settled, a case avoided, a feedback removed, and/or a customer's anger difused.

Being emotional, angry, or wanting vengeance (even when it's very much deserved) can easily end up to be very very expensive, especially since we're all working on a platform run by bots that favor the buyers and don't factor in fairness or logic. For me, it's paid back dividends (over the years) to cut ties and diffuse situations early on, though during many of these conflicts my inner Dexter definitely comes to life and I have to just suppress it and be so sweet in my emails.

A super difficult thing to learn to do, but like I said, over time it's paid me back far more than it cost, if you don't factor in the frustration of letting an ahole get away with damaging my account rating or ripping me off.

In this case I'd just email saying that I'd not fight this with a case, you got your money back, just do me the favor of removing the FB and sending the link.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Thanks for the messages.

I'm usually not vindictive and try to put logic first, I always give refunds even when I've done nothing wrong. But this person is impossible, asking her to remove the feedback doesn't work. I talked with ebay support aswell and really there isn't much that can be done.
So I figured if there's nothing else to lose might aswell give it a try, I remember I've won a few cases before but don't remember any details.

I think I'll give it a try and select disagree with the claim. I'll add that the item's policy was 14 days returns and that I won the case on eBay.


The only thing I fear is getting a review and losing my account because of this, that's why I was asking. The item is about 40$ worth
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Old 10-26-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

You can give it a try but the digital aspect is what will make any eb/pp support rough...and could lead to big problem for the account
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

you can always report her to Ebay ,if she does it too many times,her buying privilege would be suspended as she is a hazard to seller community,but she can still sell
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

I'm usually not vindictive and try to put logic first, I always give refunds even when I've done nothing wrong.
------------
what is her gripe,there must be something she does not agree with you?
she lost on Ebay so she turns to Paypal,she seems rather determined to get her $40 back,sounds like $40 is lot of money to her,so she could go to her cc issuer ,then you will pay $20 chargeback fee

Last edited by agent006140; 10-26-2019 at 07:13 AM.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Excellent chance of winning it. In my recent experience Paypal has been helpful in these INAD cases (it was fine 2 weeks ago but it isn't as described now) but you need to call them and sometimes call a few times to get someone cooperative.

I could be wrong about digital goods but seriously, try calling a few times.
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Old 10-26-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

I win these all the time but my accounts are big volume accounts and I call in. The automated system will not help you. You must call in, explain in detail, explain that ebay sides with you and this is the second attempt to scam you.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

If eBay sided with you in the case then the feedback would have been removed automatically.

PayPal nearly always ask buyer to return in these situations. I've never sold a digital item so not sure what chance you have. Definitely mention the eBay case if true.

Personally, I would just refund and move on.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
I'm usually not vindictive and try to put logic first, I always give refunds even when I've done nothing wrong.
------------
what is her gripe,there must be something she does not agree with you?
she lost on Ebay so she turns to Paypal,she seems rather determined to get her $40 back,sounds like $40 is lot of money to her,so she could go to her cc issuer ,then you will pay $20 chargeback fee
She just claimed it doesn't work and demanded a refund. When I asked her to explain the problem and offered help, she got defensive immediately left negative feedback and opened a return case. I didn't even get a chance to reply before it was too late.

It could be just pride. I don't like to generalize because every case its individual but some of the worst customers I've had were women. They act so self entitled and rude it's impossible to reason with them.

But I know for a fact that the item is fully legit, she is either incompetent or trying to scam.

I also reported her. She has over 500 feedback ratings, I noticed in every 10 or so she leaves a negative. I felt it from the from the beginning smth was coming.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisty View Post
If eBay sided with you in the case then the feedback would have been removed automatically.
Never heard about something like that. I spent over 30 minutes speaking with 2 representatives and they told me they can't remove it because it's considered user experience.

This was a return case. But I've always had to ask to manually remove it in every case I've had. This one hurt my account because I had a perfect score.
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Old 10-26-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

FEEDBACK does not make much difference these days.
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Old 10-27-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

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Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
FEEDBACK does not make much difference these days.
Customers literate enough to read feedback left ebay 10 years ago. I find many are too stupid to even look at photos.
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Old 10-27-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

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Originally Posted by cafonabob View Post
Customers literate enough to read feedback left ebay 10 years ago. I find many are too stupid to even look at photos.
There are stupid customers but there are also good ones - have to approach each potential one positively though and hope.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cafonabob View Post
Customers literate enough to read feedback left ebay 10 years ago. I find many are too stupid to even look at photos.
They are not stupid,they just figure if it does not work out,they can always file dispute and make the seller picks up return shipping
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Old 10-28-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankee View Post
I win these all the time but my accounts are big volume accounts and I call in. The automated system will not help you. You must call in, explain in detail, explain that ebay sides with you and this is the second attempt to scam you.
Itís all dependent on what you sell and your account status. Big volume = business account and I know your talking to people OP probably wonít be. But calling in is a must if you want a shot at winning the case.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ch3shirecat View Post
Never heard about something like that. I spent over 30 minutes speaking with 2 representatives and they told me they can't remove it because it's considered user experience.

This was a return case. But I've always had to ask to manually remove it in every case I've had. This one hurt my account because I had a perfect score.
I personally take my feedback seriously and consider my reputation one of the most important factors. On eBay specifically itís very important because the platform still has a bad reputation imo for fraud.

Donít take no for an answer if you want it removed. Learn why they tell you no and think of a creative way to explain your reasoning again. Iíve gotten ďimpossibleĒ feedbacks removed. Any feedback can be removed, any feedback. No means nothing, just keep calling and itís best to do it late and night or right when they open.
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Old 10-28-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solefoodbk View Post
I personally take my feedback seriously and consider my reputation one of the most important factors. On eBay specifically itís very important because the platform still has a bad reputation imo for fraud.

Donít take no for an answer if you want it removed. Learn why they tell you no and think of a creative way to explain your reasoning again. Iíve gotten ďimpossibleĒ feedbacks removed. Any feedback can be removed, any feedback. No means nothing, just keep calling and itís best to do it late and night or right when they open.
I agree with you, feedback is an important indicator, although I've seen sellers who keep selling succesfully with extremely low feedback.
I tried again with customer support but they gave me very assertive answers with 0 hope. I even asked if it would be taken in consideration if the buyer gets a full refund, it wouldn't be fair that she gets the item, the money and gets to leave feedback aswell. The answer was it won't be changed under any circumstances. I might try again but I kind of gave up on that.


About the case I sent an e-mail with the details to paypal support, they haven't replied yet. I will update the final result when the case is closed.
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent006140 View Post
I'm usually not vindictive and try to put logic first, I always give refunds even when I've done nothing wrong.
------------
what is her gripe,there must be something she does not agree with you?
she lost on Ebay so she turns to Paypal,she seems rather determined to get her $40 back,sounds like $40 is lot of money to her,so she could go to her cc issuer ,then you will pay $20 chargeback fee
Very true. If the amount isn't much, one shouldn't let such cases fester. Time and peace of mind are
invaluable.
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Old 10-28-2019
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Default Re: Is it possible to win an INAD case on paypal?

I dont care about feedback at all unless there is a defect attached to it. Feedback is irrelevant IMO.

My best income producing accounts are 98% and 96.7% It is way to much work removing feedback because of scammers, competition and dumb people. We get multiple negative feedback every day on multiple accounts. Removing feedback is a full time job. When we do it, we do it via defect removal and case closures. Every week or so I sit down and spend a few hours on the phone and only on great accounts. Small accounts, I wait until I have a defect or case that needs closure and then get everything from the past few months taken care of.
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